Job Discussion Forums

[bonesleet]

I recently turned down a job at a university in Saudi that prides itself in trying to bring a Western model of education into their country. They brag on their Web site for being known for their "world-class education in English and science." But their cutting edge protest for social change is simply allowing women to sit in the back of a lecture hall, with male students in the front, in a class taught by a male professor. But they won't allow a female professor to do so with male students also in the room.

There’s no doubt that certain lesser factors contributed to my turning the job down, e.g., that they were trying to swindle me by skimming severance money off the top, and they were not providing secure housing and transportation. (Allowances to rent a hotel room downtown and take taxis to work and to the supermarket were offered instead.) When comparing the offer (20,000 SR a month including the allowances) to the sort of offers instructors are accepting who get taken in by recruiters (there's been much talk of such outfits on the Saudi forum), I thought for half a second that I may have made a mistake. But after reading today about an NGO that addressed Saudi human rights abuses at the UN Human Rights Council in June, http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/2014/06/25/what-made-saudi-arabia-panic-at-the-un-human-rights-council/ I was reminded of the main reason that I knew not to take the job.

It wasn’t just their shady labor practices and corruption (skimming money off the top); laziness, negligence, and greed (not wanting to take the time or spend the money to build a secure, guarded compound to house their foreign employees in, deal with landlords, or rent vehicles for their employees); or their lack of consideration for employees and their needs as they adjust to a new job and work environment that turned me off. The real problem was (and is) their human rights record. And with such intolerance shown towards outsiders, how can we take their claims of "world class education" seriously? Moreover, how can we take them seriously when this sort of thing (suppression of free speech and even "defining atheism as terrorism") is still going on in their culture?

I take it by "science," they simply mean civil engineering or geology. Or, in other words, being able to secure their wealth and the grip of the royal family on the population through control of their oil fields and production. The social sciences like social psychology don’t count. And evolutionary psychology is certainly off the table. And any serious philosophical discourse is a big no-no. A discussion of existentialism or post-modernism could well lead to “10 years and 1000 lashes!”

The reason I didn’t take the job is because of their medieval mindset which is incompatible with anything resembling world class education. So who are they fooling by calling themselves "world class” educators when their main objective is the suppression of free speech and belief? Certainly not me. The idea of such a thing there is a sort of tragicomedy. Sorry, but the money just isn’t worth it! And, if it is to you, then I’d urge you to reconsider.

[nomad soul]

Stating that a university is "world class" is nothing more than a marketing ploy to attract naïve job seekers. Nothing new there. But seriously, you've worked and lived in ultra-conservative KSA before, so none of this should come as a surprise to you. Besides, you turned down the offer because it didn't meet your high expectations, so no harm done. Apply elsewhere but keep your expectations low (realistic).

[rollingk]

Well, it's certainly a "world class" kinda act, and if it didn't involve so many delusional people it would be better entertainment. Still, the arrogance always delivers for me.

Bonesleet, so you've decided to forgo taking any job in the region then I'd guess? Because most of the other countries hereabouts are very similar, but with perhaps better stage direction.

[sicklyman]

and you might find work in East Asia fails to meet your high moral criteria too...

[nomad soul]

Plus, we're simply English teachers focused mainly on improving students' language skills. If we were PhD holders teaching a subject (chemical engineering, for example), then a university's world ranking would certainly be important.

[bonesleet]

Yes, having moral standards and ethics can definitely be an impediment when looking for work in this field. Just tired of the b.s., arrogance, and exploitation really. And, yes, the Middle East and East Asia are probably out. Been there, done that. But you never know when you might meet a group of people that you can deal with or where they might be located. It would probably be someplace provincial, with people who aren't as political and status driven as those who offered me that last job. But of course the places like that normally don't pay much. Anyway, that's what I keep looking for. And, nomadsoul, I know to keep my expectations low. Sound advice as always.

[scot47]

Those with dependants to clothe, house and feed cannot always be so choosy. Perhaps I was lucky in that, at the end of my "career" in TEFL I found two reasonable employers in KSA - the Airline and then KFUPM.

I put the word career in inverted commas since I am not sure that we should dignify the activity with such a noble concept.

[LPKSA]

[plumpy nut]

[coder]

delete

[dragonpiwo]

Dunno about the poster or the rest of you but I work/have worked in some god awful places for the money.

[The Fifth Column]

In the ME, self-respect is a commodity few have the luxury to value. I numbered amongst that few.

Saudis don't know their collective a$$e$ from random holes in the ground.

THEY were & never will be the problem. The problem lies w/the the money-grubbing citizens who come from a country that they can't stand the weather in, doing their "cousins" dirty so they can climb and stay at the top of the money pile.

But, nothing changes. I'm back in the "Land of the Big PX" facing the same sickness in the entrenched civilian cabal who have outlived & outstabbed their contemporaries...

The only difference is now, when they throw down on me, they have to back it up because the playing field is now evened...somewhat...

[LPKSA]

[scot47]

40 hours class contact is crazy. Where was the job ? Who were the employers ?

[veiledsentiments]

Sounds like one of the many stories that flow around the area which become urban legend...

VS