Job Discussion Forums

Kimac · Joined: 02 Apr 2013 Posts: 5

Have you spoken to them about an ESP application, and if so did they know what they were doing? Even without this explicit background, with good guidance you should be able to adapt, but did your conversation go in that direction?

The simple act of competence in discussing their needs should be a tip off for professionalism.

moomama · Joined: 30 May 2013 Posts: 10

Kimac · Joined: 02 Apr 2013 Posts: 5

You know, if this Association is for real and the equivalent of the US FAA, and I suspect Turkey does have such an organization (do some quick Googling), the standards for Aviation English are well developed by the ICAO. Even if you'll be teaching very basic English fundamentals, your syllabus would need to be designed for hand-off, and it would not be just another English 101 situation.

If they are not able to discuss their operation and your roll in it in terms of ICAO Doc 9835 or circular 323, they're poseurs. Take some time and glance these things over, since they set the stage for AE.

Somehow I don't get that sense. Aviation and the world of Aviation English are populated by people who have their act together or are working hard at getting there.

As far as a contract goes, it will be necessary for the pkg they will use in getting you a work visa. If they're going to take you on without a visa you should bail. In my work with legitimate organization (although not in Turkey), contracts are often not mentioned because they're understood, and will be forthcoming once your candidacy has ripened sufficiently.

Yiorgos89 · Joined: 24 May 2013 Posts: 1

I've recently received a job offer from UTAA as well. I had had a skype interview with a couple of perfectly amiable Turkish ladies and after a couple days they offered me a job.

I was a bit nonplussed during the interview, however, when they wouldn't disclose what salary they were willing to offer me; instead they asked me what my expectations were. Put on the spot somewhat, I gave a figure of $2000 as something I would consider satisfactory.

Sure enough, the job offer states the salary will be $2000. To be honest, I found that a bit unprofessional, although apart from that I got a good impression of the university and in particular the foreign languages department. What I like is that it'll be a fairly 9-5 schedule, whereas other jobs I've applied for abroad would be teaching afternoons and evenings.

To be clear- the job they are offering is to teach general english as preparation for the students before they start their university courses. No aviation English required, or at least in the job they have offered me.

I've spoken via email with an American teacher working there and she's really happy with the job and life in Ankara.

I am tempted to take them up on it, but I'm not sure about the salary- is $2000 a month something I could live off comfortably, bearing in mind I'll have to pay rent/bills?

Kimac · Joined: 02 Apr 2013 Posts: 5

It all depends on you. There are all sorts of conversations on Daves' about pay and cost of living. If a newbie TEFLer makes maybe 20TL hr/25 hrs wk=2000TL month, that is a bit less that $2000 DOLLARS at the current exchange.

As for their negotiation on pay.....that's standard HR practice the world over, and nobody every accused Turks of being bad business people. Basic rule in these sorts of negotiations is that the first person who floats a number looses, and leaves $ on the table. It's a game and you lost, but the fact is its a salary you said you could live with, so live with it and make the most of things. Good Luck

wander&teach · Joined: 15 Nov 2009 Posts: 126

If you asked for and received $2,000 U.S. you have done very well. If he contract says 2,000tl you will have some difficulties.

PC Parrot · Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:34 am Post subject:

ecocks · Joined: 06 Nov 2007 Posts: 899 Location: Gdansk, Poland

misterkodak · Posted: Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:33 am Post subject:

I"m not holding my breath. I"m still waiting on a contract. The interview went well but in further correspondence with them it seems they wouldn't help me find temporary accomodation til I find a place, etc etc. It was more about what they WOULDNT do instead of WOULD do. It's a new place so I'm
not too optimistic.

delal · Joined: 04 Oct 2005 Posts: 251 Location: N Turkey

You just book yourself into a hostel and start from there.
Once you're here, you will find that Turkish people are incredibly helpful (yes, even in Ankara) and will go the extra mile for you

awwright11 · Joined: 06 Jul 2013 Posts: 3

So, I am also a newly-hired instructor for this fall and I've been experiencing the same exact problems: lack of or no communication, no contract to sign, vague information, etc. However, I've been pestering UTAA and finally got in contact with one of the members of UTAA's Foreign Language Department. It takes a couple of months to get your working permit so don't fret. You will also sign the contract once you arrive-- so there is a contract! I have actually asked to review a sample on before I arrive to clear some of the air (and for some peace of mind). As for the contract, they're sending me one tomorrow to view before I leave for Bali. If you do want one, I believe all you have to do is ask. Hopefully this relieves some of your worries.

As for the housing, yes, they do not offer any assistance. I even asked for if I could send boxes to the school and since the department is moving buildings, they advised against it since they could get lost. Luckily I have a contact back in America who is getting me set up with an apartment beforehand and a friend of his that I can send boxes to. Therefore, I will have my apartment around August 15th, so if anyone going to Ankara for UTAA needs a place to crash, please send me a PM on here and we can try to work something out. I'd be more than happy to help.

I did, however, let me know that the communication was quite poor on their end and it was leaving me with a very strong sense of insecurity job wise. So, they are {somewhat} aware of their errors, but whether it sunk in, I do not know. I do not know if this is Turkish culture, more so just how the university is ran.

Anyways, things are starting to look up and I'm sure once we all get there that we'll make the best of it.

JohnRambo · Joined: 06 Mar 2008 Posts: 183

I wanted to know if anyone had anything further to say about the said university.

awwright11 · Joined: 06 Jul 2013 Posts: 3

I have sent a few private messages out and I just wanted to give any and everyone an opportunity to read it. Below is the same private message I have sent to others who have inboxed me.

I don't want to scare you into anything or out of anything, but I will be blatantly honest-- don't accept any position they offer you. I accepted the position in May and never received a contract. We didn't receive any contracts until September when we arrived. They are probably one of the most unorganized, least communicable institutions I've ever experienced 'working' with. First of all, emails will go left unanswered-- emails that are important including visa, residence permit, etc. I was in Bali a month before I arrived in Turkey. I had okayed the trip with members of the department. But it should have never been okayed. First of all, I received all the necessary documents the day I left Tokyo in which I made sure I could go to the embassy in Jakarta to get everything taken care of. They said that would be okay and so I did it because I could get everything processed and then I could enter on a tourist visa.

Come to find out, I should have never gone to Jakarta because I needed to apply for my work permit either in the US or Tokyo. So, they led me in complete wrong direction. Second of all, the timeline that they give you to arrive is completely shit. They will probably tell you to arrive on September 1st which is/was the first day of classes. I arrived August 13th because they said it would be easy and inexpensive to get an apartment set up-- not true.

In order to get an apartment or really do ANYTHING in Turkey, you need to have a residence permit. This allows you to open your bank account, etc. You can't get a residence permit without a work permit which I still didn't receive mine. I had applied for my work visa in Jakarta at the beginning of August so by the time September rolled around, my work visa was never, ever, going to be processed because of their mistake. The only way I was able to survive in Ankara for a month was because of my coworker-- a wonderful Turkish woman. She signed my apartment, got everything in her name because I was unable to do it. So, that's that and I started furnishing my apartment.

Well, a week passes (probably the first week of September) and they tell me (and other coworkers because everyone had problems with their work visa, etc.) that we won't be able to get paid for the month of September because we don't have the necessary documents to open the bank account. Well, they actually said, "You can work for us for free, but if you say no then we'll be really upset." Are you freaking serious? So, now, after living on financial fumes I find out that we won't be paid until November-- possibly later-- because I was not able to get a residence permit and work permit. They actually suggested I fly back to Tokyo or America and restart the process. They then later told me that I no longer had a job because I should have never gone to Jakarta and it was my fault.

Their knowledge of the entire system is completely ghastly. Ideally, you need to arrive with your work permit in hand at passport control. Then, expect to spend a month getting your residence permit because it takes that long... so without that residence permit, you can't get an apartment or anything so you'd be living in hotels. They will not tell you this. They don't offer housing and they won't offer temporary housing for you. Almost every school offers housing for their employees-- the one I am at now pays for everything. And paid for flights-- which, by the way, I never received back in reimbursement even though I was promised this because I 'never signed a contract'-- but I couldn't sign the contract because my work visa situation and, again, that was all caused by them. They refused to accept that they made mistakes and then screwed me royally over in the long run.

Again, there were some nice people that did help me out, but I absolutely and am strongly against you taking a position with them. They do not have their shit together and completely misled all of their employees and lied to us. They do not communicate with their employees. I had four emails left go unanswered in July because "she was on vacation" and my emails were specifically about getting my work visa, etc.

Also, and I forgot to mention this-- I was told in the beginning that I could get all of my work permit stuff taken care of in Turkey-- this was back at the end of May. So, I was smooth sailing until I left Tokyo-- so I thought. The day I was leaving Tokyo they told me I was not able to do it in Turkey-- and she was the one that confirmed that I could. So, she misled me again.

So, this was really quick story of what happened. They left me almost homeless in Turkey. I had to sell all of my furniture, get rid of my apartment, and find a new job all in one weekend. It was horrible, but I must say my set up now is heavenly.

This was all very random and kind of out of order, but if you'd like to add me on Skype I am able to give you a better chronological story of how everything went down. But the bottomline is that you shouldn't take any position from them. And spread the word if you are able to because I do not want what happened to me to happen to anyone-- ever.

Good luck with your job search. Please let me know if you need anything else.