Job Discussion Forums

[datokate9]

Has anyone worked with them recently or at all?

Haven't found anything about them on here. I got an email from them with a lot of information and a good deal but not sure how legit they are. http://www.czzchina.com/


Thanks,

Kate

[vikeologist]

Well, they're a recruiter.

Many people believe that you should never use a recruiter, because you can find your own job. At best you're paying a premium price for services that you don't really need. However, I suppose if money isn't a factor for you at all, because you have lots of savings, or this is basically just a gap year before embarking on a well paid job afterwards, then maybe this might be ok. To be clear, even though you wouldn't be paying them any money, they'd be keeping a large chunk of what the school pays them.

Anyway, here's an article / thread about why not to use recruiters.

http://raoulschinasaloon.com/index.php?topic=6827.0

They may not be any worse than language mills. On the plus side their website does explicitly state that they'll get you a Z visa, which makes them sound legit. On the minus side, they make absolutely no mention of the requirements for being able to work in China, (23+, degree, teaching experience) though there may well be variations to this eligibility in Zhengzhou. If they don't state in all the info they've sent you that you need a degree and ESl quals and experience, then there's a good chance that's because they'll be prepared to come up with some fakes for you (believe me, it happens), in which case they're definitely not legit.

Anyway, here's my advice. If (as in the case with CZZ) you can't find any info, either good or bad, assume it's bad. I think that on those occasions where people have a good experience with a recruiter, they tend to pay it forward by listing them as an exception to the rule, (at which point they get criticised by anti-recruiter fanatics like me ). I don't think anybody has ever done that to CZZ.

[Non Sequitur]

In my exp recruiters don't skim your salary each month.
A one-off fee of one month's salary seems standard and remember it is what's known as 'contingency recruitment'.
This means the recruiter doesn't get paid for putting up unsuccessful candidates.

[Texas Chuckles]

This is the history and business practice of Niu Chen alias Marco and Dana Kruzic alias Daniel.

1) Jessica Davis was the “HR director” and a rah-rah for CZZ. She was the HR manager who basically mimicked the decisions or directives of Niu Chen the owner of CZZ. She worked for about four months for CZZ ONLY because she needed a visa to stay in China. She was actually a host for a local television station in Zhengzhou. As soon as she could leave CZZ she did.

2) Niu Chen is a 24 year old punk. He cares not what his recruiter Dana Kruzic says in skype interviews to draw potential candidates to China. He WILL: Give assurances, statements, promises, and glorify positions that will absolutely be false or not followed through. He will give the lowest possible pay to teachers for assignments and pocket huge profits sometimes knowing the financial binds his teachers are in. He will ask teachers for favors and never, ever, return the favor, give 100% fruition, or give credit WHENEVER credit is due. In this current version of this business he goes by the alias Marco. Previously he was running an agency call Helen. From the past posts it is plain he was cheating, scamming, and abusing his employees.

3) Dana Kruzic is stoner who gives vague descriptions of positions with schools, company policies,
procedures, and makes ambiguous references to the bonuses that a teacher can get. You will be told that there is a position waiting for you once he accepts you but the truth is once you have spent thousands to get to the P.R.C. you will 'shopped around' to various schools or training centers to see if they will accept you for a position. The description of the apartment you might be living in will not be accurate or be appropriately equipped. You might be forgotten at the airport upon arrival, or it might be changed or forgotten what position or school you were to have had waiting for you. Some of the schools will reject you if you are not from the United States or Canada.

4) The temporary apartment you may have waiting for you will be dirty with no kitchen and nothing to clean it with. The apartment you will be provided by the school may be unbelievably filthy, stinking, with no working water, and have no kitchen. It may be livable when you move in but don't count on it. Make sure that you boil the water from the tap if you use it for anything. One of CZZ’s teachers got metals poisoning because he didn’t boil the water long enough.

5) You will sign a contract that you will not be given a copy of, counter-signed by Niu Chen, and according to Chinese contract law enforceable in ANY country. It is an instrument only to be thrown in your face if you have any complaints about promised pay, over-time, or other stipulations that the company will brow beat you with to arm twist you into compliance. Understand now that you will NEVER, EVER, fulfill the stipulations of the contract to get the full amount of money you were told that you could receive. You WILL lose anywhere from 15,000 to 20,000 RMB.

6) You will be assigned a ‘TA’ or a ‘CS’ depending on the vernacular used at the time. These people are simply underpaid and over-worked company employees whose job it is to help you with things you need for the company, shopping, bus directions, or issues with your apartment. The girls are very good but the boys tend to be lazy and slick. Slick trying to work you for little things. The boys aren’t reliable and the girls do a good job. If you get contacted to do something you need to do it will be at a moments notice: moving, appointments, etc.

7) The school may or not be a school where there was a previous teacher from the agency. If it was there was probably a fall out from the teacher or teachers before. At some schools there will be a department head or subject who will be trying to eliminate the laowei (foreigner). In ANY event the students will be lazy rich kids whose parents were told that all they had to do is pay the tuition and the children are guaranteed to go to a western university. You cannot establish any discipline and there are no failing students. If you do in either case you will be complained about and back stabbed by the students AND the school. You will hear stories from CZZ such as 'the teacher was a racist' or 'the teacher got drunk every night' which if you talk to the teacher who was removed you'll find out these comments were lies. Even if the lies are debunked and the office knows the truth these will used as leverage to deny bonuses, or reduce pay, etc.

8) You will receive pay on or about the 15th of every month. Never earlier and always later if the pay day falls on the weekend. If you work some ‘other’ voluntary assignment you will receive your pay on the 20th of the following month. You WILL have days missing that you should be paid for usually regarding the first days you work. Many, many, many, of CZZ’s teachers often have unresolved pay discrepancies
that are usually not worked out in their favor. Your first pay is held back so that the company can recover its initial fees for hiring you. You are not told this and this puts you in a position that pressures yourself into continuing working to get back your expenses from coming out to China. The most you can hope for is to break even.

9) If you attempt to stand up for yourself either to the school or the CZZ you will labeled either a ‘bad teacher’ or a ‘bad employee’. If you get angry with the office you will be threatened with: expulsion from China on a moments notice, blacklisting from China, or withholding of pay.

Final word. This post is a collection of conversations that I’ve had with the teachers of CZZ. Unless they come across this they will probably have no knowledge of what’s written here. As for me I’m fed up with the practices of Chinese agencies and have gone home to my country.

[doogsville]

[Texas Chuckles]

I write this at great peril to myself but here goes. In the last three months two employees finally had enough of short salaries, broken agreements, and Marco making up for shortfalls in his pocket by skimming employee pay. Two employees that stand out of the constant exodus of employees that leave the horror of employment with CZZ decided to leave.

Both were threatened with arrest, deportation, and blacklisting. Of one these are the following events that occurred from the beginning and are currently still (that's correct currently) going on. My good friend and excellent teacher gave a notice to leave under Chinese labor law which states: "If a teacher does not receive his expected salary or pay on the assigned payday or within 24 hours of, may at his or her discretion cancel the contract". This happened at least four times to to him my knowledge.

Again this is stated in Chinese Labor Law: "If threats are given for any reason this immediately revokes the contract".

The half owner of CZZ and his girlfriend who is the Human Resource Director accepted the separation and gave the teacher until the 22nd of August to vacate the apartment which IS NOT OWNED BY CZZ BUT ACTUALLY AN ENGLISH TRAINING CENTER. This lovely apartment which I saw myself was filthy upon moving in, the AC did not work, the main light fixture, the water to the sink in the WC, the doorbell, the wall clock, the toilet did not work properly, and the apartment reeked. The teacher who is something of a handyman repaired at his own cost all of the things that did not work with the exception of the toilet. On the day he was to receive his documents three employees of CZZ showed up at his apartment.

This is eight days before the day the COMPANY APPROVED MOVE OUT DATE. In a phone call from "Marco" on a mobile phone carried by one of the employees he informed the teacher that he "either immediately sign a new contract or move out of the apartment immediately". The new contract offered was for less money, a city out of the current city, and he would have to be on "probation" because had cancelled the contract. My friend fell immediately ill and had to be hospitalized a few hours later from the stress of this extortion attempt. This is the fourth time my friend had fallen ill to the stress caused by the horrid treatment of this company. Because of the illness he was unable to sign a new contract immediately and it bought him a few days to decide what he should really do. He moved out of the apartment with the help of some close friends and had a place to stay for a few days. He did not inform CZZ simply because of fear for his personal safety.

On the following wednesday Niu Chen (Marco) sent thugs to the teachers' apartment posing as policemen to "explain the dangers of breaking a contract". He also sent the same thugs this time posing as employees of the Public Security Bureau in Zhengzhou to talk to a Chinese friend of the teacher in an attempt to locate my friend. My friend went up to Beijing to the American consulate and with their help saw a doctor and was able to hide his true location for a few days. CEO Niu Chen (Marco) instead of just letting the teacher leave started a terrorist campaign against him. He through his bribed official friends had his visa cancelled, residence permit cancelled, expert certification cancelled, and began the process to blacklist him from China. This is nothing short of terrorism. It's the same as ISIS or any other heinous terror group.

I asked a Chinese student friend of mine to call CZZ a few days before this post posing as a recruiting agency asking about my friends' documents and other things. "Marco" informed the student of the cancellations and blacklisting and said there were "work related issues". My friend never missed a class, a day of teaching, and was ALWAYS POPULAR WITH THE STUDENTS, FACULTY, AND ADMIN OF ANY SCHOOL HE WAS A TEACHER AT. The only problems he had at any schools (one of which I was a personal witness and the other one I got first hand info on) were two schools who had employees creating lies to run off CZZ employees for fear of their own jobs.

Mr. Niu Chen "Marco" is a contemptible, sniveling, lying, scamming, back-stabbing, wannabe thug. He hasn't done these things once or twice but again and again to teachers not only in CZZ but also with a company called Helen Group in Hangzhou. His answer for his deal breaking and salary shortcomings is either "this is China" or "it's just China". This is the same as a teenage girl who says "Whatever!!".

If you're reading this and you're on the bubble about working for CZZ you've been warned. If you've read this far from the many, many, posts regarding this company you're not very smart to begin with because you should've made a decision before this post. I was lucky this kind of crap wasn't pulled on me but I feared for my safety every day and was always nervous about my salary on payday while working for this company.

MORE ON NEXT PAGE

[The_Kong]

[Texas Chuckles]

Oh gee I'm sorry "The Kong" with no other posts and just what is your front office position with CZZ? ALL around the internet where CZZ China is getting hammered for it's atrocities against it's employees the only positive posts are authored by Dana Kruzic who is an American and half owner of CZZ, Niu Chen alias Marco alias Marco Niu, or Guilia Coley girlfriend of Dana Kruzic and the HR director of CZZ. And what evidence would like me to provide other than transcripts of mobile phone calls or first person witness accounts of heinous actions of the CZZ front office? Since you opened the Pandora's box I will now search and post ALL links directly leading to testimony regarding CZZ crimes. I guess your reaction will be:

[The_Kong]

[asiannationmc]

[Texas Chuckles]

Foreign teacher's good friend wrote:

"Good sir, would you mind providing one single piece of evidence to back up what you are saying."

CZZ does not provide pay slips with deductions listed in detail and never has. While they may show on request the "formula" for calculating pay they do not give specifics. Agencies and schools in China are required to provide itemized details of deductions to foreign teachers. A visit to the Chinese Foreign Teachers Union has several posts regarding business practices where several hundred or thousand CNY are deducted from teachers pay with no explanation. I'm sure if you request it they will provide copies of documents that have never been printed or issued.

Oh gee I'm sorry "The Kong" with no other posts

"Huh? Check again bub."

Doing a deep web search, a meta-search, and using several search engines that look for any reference to the phrase "The Kong" shows absolutely no record on the internet. This would indicate rather that you offer services of debunker to Chinese agencies and schools whose business practices to FTs are devious, dishonest, and dangerous.

"If all your going to do is post links to open blogs/forums, I'm sorry but that's not proof of anything. One person writing 10 different posts under 10 different names does not make something more believable."

Please provide one, just one listing of where one person is using several names to post on open blogs/forums with details of the persons email address or url info to back this statement. While an irate employee or ex-employee might write two under different names it is more likely that the person will just copy and paste the same thing at various sites.

Please provide one reason that the CEO of CZZ China needs and is using no less than three aliases: Niu Chen, Marco Niu, Chen Marco. Someone who is above board and operates a business in an open and honest manner might use a nickname for general purposes but not construct three identities. And according to legal documents filed at the Public Security Bureau none of these are actually close to his real name. Please provide again an explanation why an honest businessman would file documents in his own country that do not reflect the identity he is using for his operation.

aiannationmc wrote: "I would doubt the claim of half ownership by an American as a joint enterprise, as the foreign owners has to have less than 50%."

Well in actual fact any foreigner can be an owner of a business in the P.R.C. as long as they have a Chinese national listed as an officer in the company. And since we're splitting hairs here "half ownership" in legalese can be up to 49% of the business. CZZ has two foreign owners with one being a silent partner in another country and Niu Chen as the CEO or the manager or managing partner of the company.

Please indicate how mobile phone conversations regarding threats, or the sending of thugs, or other back-room attacks can be proved.

Also under evidentiary procedure of which I'm sure your years as a barrister will tell you that it's enough that a person is willing to file a simple complaint and swear to it to get a civil suit filed under national or international law. Since you referred to open blogs/forums for your argument with a little research there are no less than one hundred and twenty complaints regarding either CZZ China or the shady business practices of Niu Chen/ Marco on the internet. But I'm sure you'll retort that this is the work of one and only one dedicated ex foreign teacher with nothing better to do in his or her life. And actually you might be right. Since I left CZZ after:

1) Spending thousands to get to China
2) Being told before I traveled that there was a job waiting for me
when there was in actual fact no job waiting for me and I was shopped
around to various training centers.
3) Was put in an apartment with no kitchen and no working water.
4) Had my passport help hostage and only returned when I threatened to
go the police.
5) Was never paid for any teaching I did being told "I broke the contract".
6) Am now represented by CZZ as "crazy" and a "scammer".
7) And eventually had to have the American consulate rescue me and buy
me a plane ticket back to the U.S.

And now I'm back in Texas trying to recover at my age in this economy the funds I lost working for CZZ China so I can return to my wife in Asia. So I might have free time to take to task mealy-mouthed hacks who add to the pain and anguish of foreign teachers by trying to defame and make light of the atrocities they've suffered.

But "Here everybody watch this..."



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[The_Kong]

[wangdaning]

We know, but try to relax kong.

[asiannationmc]

[The_Kong]