Job Discussion Forums

[MrWright]

I know the answer to this question will be some version of "it depends", but I just want some input. In general, how is the behavior of your students in China? The single most important reason I'm leaving the public school system here in the states is the atrocious behavior of the kids. It's off the chart bad. Makes my job a living hell. Many good teachers learn how to cope and deal with this, but I must not be one of them. After nearly 8 years I have had enough. So, are students in China generally respectful, somewhat eager to learn, or at least don't fight you tooth and nail to not do ANY work at all? What are your experiences? I'm thinking the age group I'll probably teach there is high school-uni. Appreciate your thoughts and observations.

[johntpartee]

Just like anywhere else.

[wangdaning]

I teach first year uni on a foreign program. The students in general are ok. You get a small group in every class who would rather do nothing.

I let it be known early and often that I am not a babysitter. Why fight them tooth an nail? They are going to have assessment, and probably fail. Not my problem. I am not their mommy or daddy and I will not put myself in a situation of caring more about them passing than they do. As long as they do not disrupt my class how they waste their time is up to them.

As I said though, the majority are putting in effort and I do care about them.

[Bud Powell]

[litterascriptor]

What sort of trouble behaviors are you dealing with?

I used to teach life skills to juvies in Florida. I was attacked a few times, called just about ever nasty word in the book, and had urine thrown at me once.

Never have seen such a thing in China. I've been called some bad names but the general response from the class was more stunned silence than general approval.

Now, that being said, you will be facing an entirely different set of problems in China. Often times, the parents are a bigger pain in the manly bits than the students. I've had a couple lovely young kids who turned out to be my favorite students despite their annoying/demanding parents.

Mind you, I will never show anything extra in class to my favorites, they get the same treatment as everyone else. Much to their parent's ire, yet, who am I to deny a child the rigorous boot of discipline?

[MrWright]

Wow, I've had it bad, but not that bad. Just rude, takes 30-60 secs to get them to stop talking and listen, profound laziness, attitude, attitude, attitude!! Just talking back, refusal to abide by rules and refusal to respond to my directions. Just a general pain in my ass. There are good kids of course, but even the ones I like and like me are often frustrating to the point of mental exhaustion. I think I would like uni, but I know I won't make tons, but from what I've gathered one can pick up extra work and it adds up for not too much back breaking work. Maybe I'm wrong.

[litterascriptor]

[NoBillyNO]

Pick one, single em out... talk hard to em (u know inches from their face DI style) .. make em cry .... make an example... wash repeat and condition...

[wonderingjoesmith]

Students’ behavior reflects their background and environment; who students are depend on who their parents or grandparents are and what schools the students have frequented. Even though what I have seen may not mirror the exact situation everywhere or pave the road to anyone’s success, it may offer a clearer picture and yield to a precautionary plan.

The poor attitude towards teachers and schools in the US is a contrary to what I have seen on mainland China. Many students and parents seem to respect the education. However, the lack of parenting and schools disciplining in the US is countered with grandparents over parenting or misparenting and schools indoctrinating on mainland China. Parents in this nation do not simply have the time for their kids and it seems quite traditional to leave their kids to the oldest generation to care for. So, the result of all this is anxious, respectful, dependent and misled or out of touch students with greatly insufficient general knowledge who often have gigantic plans with little idea about how to really learn. If a large amount of guidance isn’t provided, a failure is usually inevitable.

From my own experience with junior and senior high school students, plenty of pushing takes a great deal of energy away from me. But then, although I get worn out by the clueless young souls, the reward is that some actually pass my assessments. Moreover, the students appreciate my advice and counseling which quite often translates into a bond in between. Students’ reliance on their teachers in this country seems necessary. Mind you those junior high school students here appear to be extremely vulnerable and that not only because of the outside the school influences but the adjustments the fixated on their own system greatly childish youngsters have to make.

The most difficult part of my job isn’t really about my actual academic delivery on day to day basis and/or classroom management but the school’s organizational shortcomings which ultimately affect the students behaviors. One of the major ones is that the schools’ powers guarantee success of their students and parents are left to believe their kids are in the right hands; consequently, there’s little communication with parents from schools. This, which I hope is not too far off the topic, appears to be common around, so if I were you OP, I’d psych myself up for it prior to the arrival. It’s taken me quite a bit to adapt to the local management techniques that interfere in my classrooms. The bottom line is that your disciplinary actions are greatly limited and your efficacy is in your ability to come across to the students as a professional who cares. Whether it is the entry requirement to the school, tests administration/student evaluation or appropriate communication, you’ll probably find it the most challenging part of your job, since the students’ parents aren’t truly a part of all of that.

In the end, I have seen more appreciative young people on mainland China than in the US. Although the schools management here is so chaotic, unrealistic and unthankful to me, the notion those young people’s lives may change to better for my effort is extraordinary.

[GreatApe]

I agree with much of what wonderingjoesmith has written above.

I taught high school and middle school in California for 6 years and, when I first arrived in China, I thought I had died and gone to heaven! My teacher friends back home would email me and ask me how I liked teaching in China and I would say. "Take the two biggest problems you have as a teacher in America --discipline and motivation-- and THROW THEM OUT THE WINDOW!"

My former American colleagues thought I was living the perfect teaching life! However, after teaching here for more than 4 years, I now realize that when it comes to "motivation" ... my statement above was a bit overzealous. Motivation (especially with teenage Chinese boys, can definitely be a problem), but not as big a problem as it is in the U.S. because a lack of motivation here generally comes with a lack of attitude as well.

As someone above said, if they don't want to learn, they can waste their time ... just don't interrupt the class or prevent the students who want to learn from being able to do so.

I've spent most of my time in China teaching at International schools, which has meant mostly high school and middle school age kids. It has been a PLEASURE! It's not walk-in-the-park, but I certainly enjoy it more than I did teaching in America.

Still, it's a compromise ... for example, my grades here don't really matter all that much. Kids don't generally fail a grade and get held back until they get caught-up with their studies and pass. They simply get passed onto the next level. You want to communicate problems you're having with a student to their parents? You better bring a translator, unless you're fluent in Putonghua ... or, have the Chinese "Form Teacher" call the parents. Even then, the parent is more likely to blame the school for failing to discipline and educate their child, rather than blame the child for his or her shortcomings.

The point above about social-pressures outside of school is also VERY real. Many Chinese students are naive about the larger world and may seem (and actually be) shy and "innocent" ... but that is not to say that they haven't experienced a lot of strange and even inappropriate things in their personal lives outside of the classroom. KTV, drinking, sexual pressures from older people and from their peers, money issues, materialism ... all of these things can knock a young girl or boy off of their "study goals."

Speaking of students ... it's off to class now. I'll revisit this thread again later.

GOOD LUCK to the OP!

--GA

[Didah]

Mr. Wright,

If you are teaching in the States, you probably have a valid teaching credential. If your licensed to teach English in public schools, you can get a job in one of the better paying bridge programs that prepare Chinese students to study in America or other English speaking countries. The salaries can be very good and above average for ESL teaching in China. I am currently interviewing with programs that pay more than 25K per month plus housing, flights and insurance after tax. These jobs are 40 hours with about 20 - 25 contact hours and office hours. The programs I'm looking at require AP experience but with a valid teaching credential in English, some may waive the requirement. Even if your credential is not in English, there is a chance that you could still land in a bridge program.

If you are not set on China and you have a teaching credential, you may want to check out international school jobs in other countries. The most affordable service that reputable international schools use is The International Educator (tieonline.com). The advertise here sometimes. It costs about $40 for a year and there are many jobs posted for credentialed teachers. The recruiting fairs are over and it is late in the season but there are still good jobs there compared to the $300 you pay to ISS. Same schools.

Good luck

[Banner41]

[GreatApe]

+ 2 (Seconded) ...

That's what I do working for an I.S.

AP, IELTS, TOEFL, SAT and 1 on 1 classes designed for students who want to study abroad.

--GA

[happeningthang]

You will find China an oasis of student self discipline and motivation compared to the rampant 'But what about me?' selfishness (or as it's other wise known "individualist independence") of the west.

Chinese students' have a cultural imperative to learn and do their best at school and as long as you can make the material interesting enough to keep their attention - the absolute worst you'll have to deal with is a tendency for them to chat when you're teaching.

They are afforded a lot more personal responsibility for their studies and so they don't always pay attention if they don't think it's worth their while- but if you're an even half way decent teacher - you will easily be able to engage and lead your class.

[Didah]

GA

Agree +3. I have taught in a bridge program in China and the U.S. I agree with the other posts that this caliber of Chinese student tends to be highly motivated and their are no discipline problems -- especially in U.S. public schools which is the environment I came out of. Teaching is a second career for me and after I spent all that money on taking my minor in English to a second B.S. and then the teaching credential I remember standing in front of a class in public school and thinking to myself that I paid to do this? Then, I went back overseas and it is a much more positive experience. Sounds like you have a great gig.
Good luck