Job Discussion Forums

[AMINK]

Hi there,

I just wanted to hear peoples opinion on these 3 different working contracts and environments if anyone is able to help or voice there opinions it would be good.

Education Experts are based in Riyadh and have many contracts with a variety of Universities across the Kingdom.

ICEAT are also an Education agency which is based in Riyadh and recruit teachers for the PYP program mainly for KSU.

AND of course there's King AbdulAziz Uni (ELI) which have their own recruitment team and recruit directly for their Uni.


I just wanted to know, they all have their pros and cons but from peoples experience or knowledge which agency/uni would they go for ? and why?

[nomad soul]

The obvious choice is the direct-hire opportunity at KAU. ICEAT and EdEx have a poor reputation---read about them within this forum if you're still interested in applying with them..

[cultofpersonality]

Always go for direct hire. I hear KAU pay a lot as well, plus it's in Jeddah!

[fledex]

KAU. It will be better than the institutions either of the contractors will put you at, and Jeddah is a more comfortable city than Riyadh, except maybe for the driving.

[Marcus Darcy]

Hi,

New to the Forum. Been meaning to post about my experiences with ICEAT but just haven't got round to it. They are really lovely AT FIRST i.e. before all the lies and deceit beings to unravel with unsavory consequences for you a teacher. My cohort was lied to from the very beginning about visa allocations, with UK based recruitment agencies (M2R in our case) in on the whole scam. First, they offer you the job with the promise of an Iqaama visa (without which, life in KSA is simply intolerable, impractical and if the immigration police get hold of you with a lapsed visa visa, bloody well dangerous!) A few weeks before you are set to do your medical, you'll get a call to see if you wouldn't mind going out on a visit visa, as iqaama's are taking longer than expected to procure (always the fault of the Saudi embassy, never the fact they don't have iqaamas and have no way of getting them due to the size and structure of the company with respect to Saudisation laws - to be precise, they don't employ enough Saudis and therefore are ineligible for iqaama visas). They sell the whole visit visa thing by making it out to be a short holiday, all expenses paid, where you're only in Riyadh for a month to fill a teacher shortage, before they fly you back to the UK to undergo your medical. I naively believed them and thought it would be a good way to get the salary clock ticking, and get a free trip back to the UK in the mix - THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT WAS SOLD - so I don't begrudge myself the naivety (this time). On arrival, it seemed like they would honour their word. Everything about the welcome was really tip top. The hotel we stayed in was classy. They even did some grocery shopping for us and left a nice little card in each of our rooms. We were taken out for a meal and met the MD. In short, we felt really valued but in hindsight it was all to mask the fact that no one was going home in October; no one was getting an iqaama. Once we started working at KSU, alarms were raised by veteran colleagues - some of whom had worked for ICEAT and explained how everything about what we were going through (delays in visit visa extensions which meant we were illegal immigrants for large periods of time and couldn't leave Riyadh for fear of arrest; constant lies and delays to when we would be sent home; the suggestion that we were not entitled to pay when we did return to the UK for our medicals; etc) - was all textbook ICEAT bullshit.
We're still in the Kingdom 6 months after we were supposed to be sent home to have our medical. We've spent more time here as illegals than as legal migrants. Most of us haven't left Riyadh for fear of being stopped by border guards. Some of our colleagues resigned and were told that if they leave the country the immigration police would intercept them and make them pay back flight charges etc. In short - avoid like the plague.

ED EX aren't much better, in fact in many areas they are much worse. ICEAT pay their employees on time, at least - ED EX staff sometimes have to wait 3-5 days after pay day to get paid. But, in part due to the scale of their corruption which even ICEAT can only aspire to, ED EX have no visa issues. If they say you'll come on an iqaama, you will.

It's really six of one and half a dozen of the other. Both treat their employees like expendables rather than valued and respected staff. Both companies treat promises, particularly verbal or even written communications (emails etc) as strategies for crowd control - nothing they say is binding. Honour is scarcer than water. My advice, get everything you have agreed signed in the blood of your contract well in advance of your travel to KSA. And bring a good pair of shoes. It didn't take long for the glue in my Topman pair to melt.

[ricardobaltierra]

Here's a thread on KAU ELI: http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=105827&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=91beb04bc336befa733c1b4099e358f6

Good luck!

[iceatsaudiarabia]

Dear Sir (aka: Marcus Darcy),

Thank you for your input about ICEAT at ESL Cafe Blog. At ICEAT, we encourage all our teachers to share their experiences so we could all learn from them. And although we found your post to be a tad negative, we feel that there are some genuine feelings behind this negativity.

We decided to reply to your concerns for the following reasons:

1. To develop as a company and learn from our mistakes.

2. To respond to your concerns and clarify a few points.

3. To reach out to you and bridge any gap between us.

4. To give our opinion on the concerns you have pointed out, so readers would know the full story.


Kindly find below our feedback to all your concerns.

1. [b]Visit Visa- At ICEAT, we made a conscious choice to hire teachers on visit visas when we realized last year that we did not have the required number of visas to meet our teacher requirement. In doing so, we were well aware of the possible concerns that come with hiring teachers on visit visas. While we hired a small number of our teachers on visit visas, we continued to work towards acquiring new employment visas. New governmental regulations delayed our visas for some time. However, we were able to work our way through these regulations and acquire the said visas. In the meantime, we did the following for our teachers on visit visas.

a. We checked with our teachers on visit visas if you they were willing to come to Saudi Arabia on a visit visa. We made them aware of the concerns with visit visas. We offered a choice.

b. We kept our teachers with visit visas informed at all times. We clarified that we do not have any influence over governmental proceedings in Saudi Arabia. We informed them about the delay in acquiring employment visas. Unfortunately, based on the information available to us at that time, we put a deadline of Jan-2014, for ICEAT to acquire working visas, but it didn’t happen. Our visas just came in late Mar-2014. This unfortunately, is how things work in here. Neither the company nor the employee has any control over these things.

c. We offered our teachers on visit visas the choice to leave the country if they so wished. We did not hold them back against their wish.

d. We facilitated the topping-up of their phones and transfer of money.

e. We arranged outings and social gatherings.


2. Deception- At ICEAT we value transparency and honesty. It has been our constant endeavor to keep our teachers informed at all times. Even at times when we did not have much information ourselves. What we do for our teachers on arrival is out of genuine concern for them. The fact that we pay our teachers on time only goes to show that we value them. We have never been consciously deceptive or misleading. We are proud to have a great team, made of good people. We believe in each member in our family.


3. Disrespect- We believe that respect lies in treating others the way we want to be treated ourselves. In keeping with this belief, we endeavor to keep our teachers informed at all times, we endeavor to pay them on time, we endeavor to treat them with respect, and we endeavor to learn from our mistakes. We beg to disagree with you when you say that, “Both treat their employees like expendables rather than valued and respected staff.” Our employees are our strength. We do the best we can for them. There are things that are beyond our control, and we are honest about them. None of our teachers are expendable. They are valued members of our family.


4. Retention- Our teachers are our greatest assets. Retaining them is essential for our growth. ICEAT has taken several measures to ensure that our teachers are satisfied. Some of these are listed below.
a. Better accommodation, in comparison to other companies. And we are striving to find better.
b. Standardized salaries (Above market average)
c. ICEAT HR Portal
d. ICEAT Induction
e. ICEAT Pre-arrival communication


Lessons Learned:

1. Double check with all teachers that they are well informed about everything related to ICEAT, and their stay in KSA.
2. Reduce and/or eliminate the use of visit visas.
3. Open further channels with our teachers to close any gaps.
4. Ensure that teachers understand the implications of the visa their arriving on.
5. Better expectation management.
6. Provide our teachers with a better understanding of exit procedures.


Our business has its own set of unique challenges. We do not shy away from those challenges. In order to be effective and successful in this business we believe that facing our challenges is the only way forward.

We truly regret your feeling this way towards ICEAT. At the same time, we believe that we can overcome challenges together.

In conclusion, we would like to thank you for sharing your thoughts. Please know that we are always available to meet with you, whether at the project site or at the Head Office, and discuss any issue or concern you might have.[/b]

[lcanupp1964]

“Be silent or let thy words be worth more than silence.”
― Pythagoras

“In prayer it is better to have a heart without words than words without a heart. ”
― John Bunyan

“A man thinks that by mouthing hard words he understands hard things. ”
― Herman Melville

“I am not imposed upon by fine words; I can see what actions mean.”
― George Eliot, The Mill on the Floss

“Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way.”
― Steve Martin

[nomad soul]

When I read that response, I pictured a cheesy infomercial with a middle-aged actor wearing a cheap toupee and polyester leisure suit from the 1970s going on ad nauseam about the benefits of working for ICEAT, especially the "special love" the company has for all the teachers it illegally hires, blah blah blah... In between his obnoxious, loud spiel are video snippets of enthusiastic testimonials from fake teachers gushing about how amazing it is to be in ICEAT's sweaty clutches. All the while, a ticker continuously runs across the bottom of the screen touting: "Email us now at [email protected]! Our recruiters are standing by to get you to the Kingdom and into your new and exciting job asap! Don't wait because these positions are filling up faster than we can print out business visit visas!"

Seriously, that ICEAT post was pure excuse-making and nothing more. Reminds me of the criminals I used to deal with.

[veiledsentiments]