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JRJohn
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 175
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 Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 5:51 am Post subject: Is It Still Possible To Get University Jobs? |
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I taught in China until 2012. I am in Korea now. I am deciding whether to stay here or go to China. I did rather like teaching in China, in Chinese university and gaining some knowledge of the language. I completed my contracts and got references. But now it seems impossible to get university jobs. Suddenly one university wanted a skype video interview and lesson demo. That is certainly much more strict than until very recently. At any rate, the computer I used has no camera, and the interview for a place in Beijing was so negative, and sceptical that I felt the interviewers were actually depressed. I was to have an interview with a place in Jiangsu Province, and I was rejected because I wasn't a registered secondary school teacher in the U.K. even though they did not ask for this. One of the places I taught in-where I enjoyed teaching and was asked to teach another year-now wants none of the old teachers back.  I taught English majors. But the demand now is for teachers of business, engineering, science and so on, who can teach those subjects in English. But they can't. The non-English majors struggle to speak English at all.
So what's going on? Where do I look for jobs? I would love a university job, though middle schools are okay. I just don't want to work for a racket like Disney English. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:03 am Post subject: Re: Is It Still Possible To Get University Jobs? |
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| JRJohn wrote: |
But now it seems impossible to get university jobs. Suddenly one university wanted a skype video interview and lesson demo. That is certainly much more strict than until very recently.
I was to have an interview with a place in Jiangsu Province, and I was rejected because I wasn't a registered secondary school teacher in the U.K. even though they did not ask for this. One of the places I taught in-where I enjoyed teaching and was asked to teach another year-now wants none of the old teachers back. I taught English majors.
So what's going on? Where do I look for jobs? I would love a university job, though middle schools are okay. I just don't want to work for a racket like Disney English. |
On the one hand I do find it good that the universities are getting stricter in hiring. However, setting up more hoops to jump through to teach compulsory Oral Engrish for non-majors to freshmen and at institutions that are not Project 985 and/or Project 211 universities?
...and all for the grand sum of 5,000 RMB per month…
| JRJohn wrote: |
| But the demand now is for teachers of business, engineering, science and so on, who can teach those subjects in English. But they can't. The non-English majors struggle to speak English at all. |
I commend the universities for looking for people who can teach these subjects in English to the students, but as the OP indicated this is a bit fruitless if the childrens don't have the English level to keep up with such subjects in English.
OP, keep lookin', keep patient, and keep the faith, and you should be able to find something that is suitable and to your liking. It may take some time but keep at it.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 6:57 am Post subject: |
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It's not impossible, there are plenty of jobs out there. I recently went on a 'recruitment binge', I emailed a ton of uni's (go to wikipedia --> list of Chinese universities --> link to their website --> find email) in areas I liked. Most appear to have been fruitless, but some did bite and I managed to narrow down my choices. I'm just considering my options, do I return to China or stay where I am...
Conditions for Oral English teachers haven't improved much, if at all. Like you say, more seem to be asking for subject teachers or specific English courses (IETLS, GAC). Again, as Chris said, for not much money. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 9:35 am Post subject: Re: Is It Still Possible To Get University Jobs? |
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| fat_chris wrote: |
| JRJohn wrote: |
But now it seems impossible to get university jobs. Suddenly one university wanted a skype video interview and lesson demo. That is certainly much more strict than until very recently.
I was to have an interview with a place in Jiangsu Province, and I was rejected because I wasn't a registered secondary school teacher in the U.K. even though they did not ask for this. One of the places I taught in-where I enjoyed teaching and was asked to teach another year-now wants none of the old teachers back. I taught English majors.
So what's going on? Where do I look for jobs? I would love a university job, though middle schools are okay. I just don't want to work for a racket like Disney English. |
On the one hand I do find it good that the universities are getting stricter in hiring. However, setting up more hoops to jump through to teach compulsory Oral Engrish for non-majors to freshmen and at institutions that are not Project 985 and/or Project 211 universities?
...and all for the grand sum of 5,000 RMB per month…
| JRJohn wrote: |
| But the demand now is for teachers of business, engineering, science and so on, who can teach those subjects in English. But they can't. The non-English majors struggle to speak English at all. |
I commend the universities for looking for people who can teach these subjects in English to the students, but as the OP indicated this is a bit fruitless if the childrens don't have the English level to keep up with such subjects in English.
OP, keep lookin', keep patient, and keep the faith, and you should be able to find something that is suitable and to your liking. It may take some time but keep at it.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
Sorry, Chris. I agree with many things you post and enjoy your tongue-in-cheek approach, but a skype interview and a minimal demonstration of being able to stand up and teach is certainly not "hoops to jump through." I have done some hiring of foreign teachers here in China, and frankly a higher institution hiring ANYONE for ANY position in a classroom sight unseen is ridiculous. In 2014, a person who wouldn't pay $3 for a webcam and is not willing to show SOMETHING of why they should get a job from out-of-country is not probably someone I would consider hiring either.
Yes, universities in China are not paying much...but it is also still pretty much the easiest job in the ESL industry in Asia. They also are often not getting much for the money they are spending! More and more people are coming over from K-land to work here. There are plenty of university jobs (although this is certainly not the hiring season!), but it is changing. Just having the right nationality, skin color, and a non-relevant degree may not get you a job offer on the spot like it did 5 years ago. You might actually have to give a good interview and, like any minimal-wage job back home, show that you WANT the job, not just expect it to be given to you. |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 10:20 am Post subject: Re: Is It Still Possible To Get University Jobs? |
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| Simon in Suzhou wrote: |
Sorry, Chris. I agree with many things you post and enjoy your tongue-in-cheek approach, but a skype interview and a minimal demonstration of being able to stand up and teach is certainly not "hoops to jump through." I have done some hiring of foreign teachers here in China, and frankly a higher institution hiring ANYONE for ANY position in a classroom sight unseen is ridiculous. In 2014, a person who wouldn't pay $3 for a webcam and is not willing to show SOMETHING of why they should get a job from out-of-country is not probably someone I would consider hiring either.
Yes, universities in China are not paying much...but it is also still pretty much the easiest job in the ESL industry in Asia. They also are often not getting much for the money they are spending! More and more people are coming over from K-land to work here. There are plenty of university jobs (although this is certainly not the hiring season!), but it is changing. Just having the right nationality, skin color, and a non-relevant degree may not get you a job offer on the spot like it did 5 years ago. You might actually have to give a good interview and, like any minimal-wage job back home, show that you WANT the job, not just expect it to be given to you. |
Ah!
I gotta backtrack and agree with you on all points that you mentioned above, Simon.
Agreed--the least universities could do is conduct a Skype interview and ask for evidence of how the teacher would lead a lesson--this actually is welcomed as it is a step in the right direction of improving the quality of the "foreign experts" who are landing positions at Chinese universities.
Also agreed--those are definitely not too many hoops to jump through. Heck, only a resume, an interview, and evidence of how one will conduct a lesson are all still less than what many other teaching jobs require a candidate to submit.
I admit that I made the mistake of applying the idea of "extra hoops to jump through" to the OP's entire post when I really only had the following part of the OP's post in mind when I threw out that cliche:
| Quote: |
| I wasn't a registered secondary school teacher in the U.K. |
I was wondering what the rationale of this is, hence, my "extra hoops" comment. If the position in question is somewhere along the lines of a teacher trainer position or a position teaching graduate students in a College of Education or a position teaching at a high school, then I would understand this requirement, otherwise…?
I conduct regular workshops on improving one's teaching for both the foreign teachers and the Chinese instructors at the university where I am based, so I do take your post to heart and I do wholeheartedly agree with it.
Warm regards,
fat_chris |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2014 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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There are many, many public university jobs available.
Subscribe to esljobs.com, and check out abroadchina.org to see a wide range of jobs available throughout China.
I don't think that there's any general push to make FTs jump through more hoops, but I think that universities have become skeptical about the qualifications of some of the yahoos who show up at their doors.
It's a bit curious that you were rejected for a position because you aren't a registered secondary school teacher. A teaching certificate does not always indicate teaching competence.
You don't say how much class room experience you have. Three-to-four years in China should make you a seasoned teacher who is competent to teach English public universities in China. |
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jackflash
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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How persistent should one be when dealing with a university recruiter/FAO representative? I guess the lull in communication is throwing me off a bit, because they seemed to express genuine interest. Any advice on how to approach the situation? Maybe I'm just being too anxious in securing a job/visa.
Do universities tend to be more active in recruitment during April? |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jackflash wrote: |
How persistent should one be when dealing with a university recruiter/FAO representative? I guess the lull in communication is throwing me off a bit, because they seemed to express genuine interest. Any advice on how to approach the situation? Maybe I'm just being too anxious in securing a job/visa.
Do universities tend to be more active in recruitment during April? |
April is the 'hot season', in my experience. I wouldn't be so persistent, try and give the impression they need you more than you need them. |
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Toast
Joined: 08 Jun 2013
Posts: 428
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| jackflash wrote: |
How persistent should one be when dealing with a university recruiter/FAO representative? I guess the lull in communication is throwing me off a bit, because they seemed to express genuine interest. Any advice on how to approach the situation? Maybe I'm just being too anxious in securing a job/visa.
Do universities tend to be more active in recruitment during April? |
Sometimes they're just holding you in reserve. Many won't have clear knowledge of how many teachers will be re-signing, or resigning until at best 90 days before the end of the spring semester, therefore will have a better indication at some point in April. The disorganized schools will have no idea who is coming back and who has bailed until the new semester begins in September.
If you've gone a week / weeks since the last communication it doesn't mean they've cut you loose, rather are spinning you on the same cog until someone makes an executive decision to change gears. Importantly don't stop looking while you wait. By the end of April have as many irons in the fire as you possibly can and start shortlisting them.
Assuming you don't have any huge physical or less importantly professional flaws if you're after a university job it's a near certainty you'll find *something*. In the meantime make sure you've got all your ducks in a row - get a medical check done if need be, have your documents all scanned and ready to send, criminal record check arranged if you're job hunting in a province where it's required, do some research into things like turnaround times, documents that are needed etc. at the embassy you'll be applying from. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| jackflash wrote: |
How persistent should one be when dealing with a university recruiter/FAO representative? I guess the lull in communication is throwing me off a bit, because they seemed to express genuine interest. Any advice on how to approach the situation? Maybe I'm just being too anxious in securing a job/visa.
Do universities tend to be more active in recruitment during April? |
How persistent should one be when dealing with a university recruiter/FAO representative?
Not at all. If the school is interested, you'll be sent a copy of the contract. You'll be asked to sign it (as an acceptance of good faith) and send it back. (You don't need a fax machine to do this anymore. You can use an electronic signature through Adobe Acrobat)
I guess the lull in communication is throwing me off a bit, because they seemed to express genuine interest.
If you've been sent a contract and you've accepted the terms, check in with the recruiter every few weeks to keep communication alive. Just say "Hi! I just want to reaffirm that I'm still interested in the job, and I expect to be there on (whatever date)". If you don't hear back in a week, inquire again and ask if the school intends to issue a letter of invitation. Don't expect that letter to arrive until the last week of July or later. Public universities always cut it close so that you don't arrive until they want you to arrive (usually a few days before classes start).
Do universities tend to be more active in recruitment during April?
April through the end of June is prime time. |
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MisterButtkins
Joined: 03 Oct 2009
Posts: 1221
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Well, I've already found a university for next year. And my current university will be looking for 2 new teachers, possibly 3. So I can say that there are definitely places looking to hire.
You have to look around a lot. A small college that's only hiring 2 new teachers might get 50 resumes... chances are yours isn't the one they follow up on. And of course, it's the better places that have less vacancies since people stay. A school with 10 foreign teachers and 6 or 7 vacancies... there's something bad going on there.
Oh, and besides the offer I accepted, I got another offer. And I only applied to like 5 places. So it's not that hard, maybe you are just looking at the wrong places. |
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jackflash
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I appreciate all the advice! |
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JRJohn
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 175
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 7:38 am Post subject: Simon in Suzhou |
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For Simon in Suzhou-I was going to reply earlier to your negative message about foreigners teaching in Chinese universities but did not. Universities and public schools are getting stricter in their requirements, and that you say is all good. Your experience in hiring new teachers suggests to you that most of us who teach in these jobs are hopeless. I hope you don't think that about the people who work for you now. I imagine you run a language mill.
When I was in China, I took the job seriously, I was organized, and involved. I came on time, I created exciting active lessons, I got all the students involved in learning, and I was happy doing it. I did not quit. I did not go to pieces. I did not run away, I did not take vacations during the semester, and I NEVER slept through a class-(although one teacher did). Some of my students won the debating prize, and I got a good reference. I came to China hoping to learn something of the language including the writing system, and I am happy to say I succeeded in that.
Now, I feel that something strange is going on. It's not just that suddenly they want a skype video. It's that I am being asked for more photos. I sent a nice photo of me wearing a shirt and tie to a recruiter for middle schools and they wanted "more professional" photos. Does this mean glamour shots?
I feel that it's as much about presentation and image as anything. I am noticing this more and more.
My feeling is that there are many more people teaching English in the Far East than there once were. That's because recently there were a lot of unemployed graduates in the west and now they're here. I don't know if things will ease up again. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:00 am Post subject: |
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Now, I feel that something strange is going on. It's not just that suddenly they want a skype video. It's that I am being asked for more photos. I sent a nice photo of me wearing a shirt and tie to a recruiter for middle schools and they wanted "more professional" photos. Does this mean glamour shots?
All I've ever been asked for is a simple headshot. Since I include it with my attached files (scans of passport, letters of rec, resume, etc.), it isn't even requested now.
Perhaps those with less teaching experience are being asked for more evidence of competence and more documentation.
Was the quality of your images good? That could be a problem. It's possible to get pro quality results outdoors with the right lighting and a telephoto setting. |
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