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bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
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 Posted: Mon Jun 16, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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I have permanent residence status but have been working overseas for a couple of years. I'm coming back to Japan and was wondering if I could get kokkminhoken during that time.
I very well may (or not) come back to Japan in the future but that's not the point. From everything I could find on the net, it seems I'm eligible.
Anybody else know about the situation? |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:23 am Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| bluetortilla wrote: |
I have permanent residence status but have been working overseas for a couple of years. I'm coming back to Japan and was wondering if I could get kokkminhoken during that time.
I very well may (or not) come back to Japan in the future but that's not the point. From everything I could find on the net, it seems I'm eligible.
Anybody else know about the situation? |
Yes, you're eligible. It's a legal right / legal requirement kind of thing.
If you take up residence in Japan, you must be in some kind of state-recognised health insurance scheme. For you, that probably means either shakai hoken through your employer or, if you can't get that, kokumin kenko hoken through your City Hall.
Problems only arise if there were periods when you should have been insured, but weren't. I.e. periods when you were resident in Japan, but not in one of the above insurance schemes. |
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bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:57 am Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
| bluetortilla wrote: |
I have permanent residence status but have been working overseas for a couple of years. I'm coming back to Japan and was wondering if I could get kokkminhoken during that time.
I very well may (or not) come back to Japan in the future but that's not the point. From everything I could find on the net, it seems I'm eligible.
Anybody else know about the situation? |
Yes, you're eligible. It's a legal right / legal requirement kind of thing.
If you take up residence in Japan, you must be in some kind of state-recognised health insurance scheme. For you, that probably means either shakai hoken through your employer or, if you can't get that, kokumin kenko hoken through your City Hall.
Problems only arise if there were periods when you should have been insured, but weren't. I.e. periods when you were resident in Japan, but not in one of the above insurance schemes. |
I should have been clearer. I will be back for two months. I guess you could see that as visiting, but I regard Japan as my country of residence (I lived there for over twenty years, my children are there).
I left Japan to pursue an MA in Linguistics, which I am in the middle of now, and when I left I was told I didn't need to pay for insurance while I was gone, and I was taken out of the insurance system.
I'm only coming back for two months, but that's a long time to go without insurance. My friend said I was trying to scam the system, but I don't see why. Either I'm a permanent resident or I'm not. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:00 am Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| bluetortilla wrote: |
I should have been clearer. I will be back for two months. I guess you could see that as visiting, but I regard Japan as my country of residence (I lived there for over twenty years, my children are there).
I left Japan to pursue an MA in Linguistics, which I am in the middle of now, and when I left I was told I didn't need to pay for insurance while I was gone, and I was taken out of the insurance system.
I'm only coming back for two months, but that's a long time to go without insurance. My friend said I was trying to scam the system, but I don't see why. Either I'm a permanent resident or I'm not. |
If my understanding is correct, permanent residency has nothing to do with it. The fact that you are a resident at all for any period more than 2 weeks means you are legally required to register with City Hall, and that carries with it a bunch of rights and obligations, including health insurance.
If your friend is Japanese and doesn't like how the system works, he should complain to his local Diet representative. If he isn't Japanese, it's none of his business. |
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bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 5:01 am Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| Pitarou wrote: |
If my understanding is correct, permanent residency has nothing to do with it. The fact that you are a resident at all for any period more than 2 weeks means you are legally required to register with City Hall, and that carries with it a bunch of rights and obligations, including health insurance.
If your friend is Japanese and doesn't like how the system works, he should complain to his local Diet representative. If he isn't Japanese, it's none of his business. |
That's very helpful, thanks. I suppose I just have to go to the kuyakusho and ask. Wish I knew beforehand. Any URL you might have about the 'any period longer than two weeks' part would be very helpful to have when I go there. I can read and speak Japanese. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 6:27 am Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| bluetortilla wrote: |
| Pitarou wrote: |
If my understanding is correct, permanent residency has nothing to do with it. The fact that you are a resident at all for any period more than 2 weeks means you are legally required to register with City Hall, and that carries with it a bunch of rights and obligations, including health insurance.
If your friend is Japanese and doesn't like how the system works, he should complain to his local Diet representative. If he isn't Japanese, it's none of his business. |
That's very helpful, thanks. I suppose I just have to go to the kuyakusho and ask. Wish I knew beforehand. Any URL you might have about the 'any period longer than two weeks' part would be very helpful to have when I go there. I can read and speak Japanese. |
First, a small correction is in order. I said earlier that your visa status is irrelevant. That's not entirely true: if you're here on a 3-month visa or less, you would not have to register your residency.
The official reference is the Ministry of Justice's brochure Start of a new residency management system! The section Procedure at a municipal office, starting on page 10, begins:
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Those who have come to Japan for the first time
Those who have received a resident card at a port of entry/departure are asked to visit the municipal office where they live with their resident card, and notify the Ministry of Justice where they live within 14 days of finding a place to settle down.
Those who have moved into a new residence
A mid- to long-term resident who has changed his/her place of residence is asked to bring his/her resident card to the municipal office of his/her new residence and notify the Ministry of Justice of the new residence within 14 days of moving to the new residence. |
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bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 11:55 am Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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[quote="Pitarou"][quote="bluetortilla"]
| Pitarou wrote: |
If my understandi
First, a small correction is in order. I said earlier that your visa status is irrelevant. That's not entirely true: if you're here on a 3-month visa or less, you would not have to register your residency.
The official reference is the Ministry of Justice's brochure Start of a new residency management system! The section Procedure at a municipal office, starting on page 10, begins:
| Quote: |
Those who have come to Japan for the first time
Those who have received a resident card at a port of entry/departure are asked to visit the municipal office where they live with their resident card, and notify the Ministry of Justice where they live within 14 days of finding a place to settle down.
Those who have moved into a new residence
A mid- to long-term resident who has changed his/her place of residence is asked to bring his/her resident card to the municipal office of his/her new residence and notify the Ministry of Justice of the new residence within 14 days of moving to the new residence. |
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So-- when I left Japan I lost my residency but not 'permanent residency' 永住権 visa status. So wherever I move into- I just go and report in to the indicated ward office and register the place I'm staying at for two months? And then when I leave go back and tell them I'm leaving?
IOW I have no permanent housing in Japan, but I do have permanent residency and I'm not sure under what circumstances if any that would be taken away (I think I'd move back to Japan to keep it). It seems those are separate issues though the latter is going to determine your rights and duties as far as insurance and pension are concerned.
I know it's not relevant to immigration law, but my two children are Japanese (dual) citizens. It is however, extremely relevant to me as it's extremely frustrating knowing that you could be prevented from living in the same country as your children. Maybe Japan doesn't see any need for allowing the parents of Japanese nationals automatic visas, but I sure find it immoral. But that's just my opinion. I just hope I can keep my status. |
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cat mother
Joined: 22 Sep 2009
Posts: 62
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:23 pm Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| bluetortilla wrote: |
So-- when I left Japan I lost my residency but not 'permanent residency' 永住権 visa status. |
I am pretty sure that there are limits as to how long a permanent resident can stay outside of Japan without losing the PR status.
But that aside, if you speak and read Japanese, wouldn't it be better to contact the ward office or city hall in the place you're planning to stay and ask them directly what you should do?
Having said that, if you have your residence card and it says "permanent resident" on it, you just go to the city office and sign up for health insurance. Don't be surprised if they ask to see the stamps in your passport to check when you re-entered Japan. |
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Pitarou
Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| Quote: |
| IOW I have no permanent housing in Japan, but I do have permanent residency ... It seems those are separate issues ... |
Pretty much.
We call it "permanent residency" but "permanent permission to reside" would be more accurate.
| Quote: |
| I know it's not relevant to immigration law, but my two children are Japanese (dual) citizens. It is however, extremely relevant to me as it's extremely frustrating knowing that you could be prevented from living in the same country as your children. Maybe Japan doesn't see any need for allowing the parents of Japanese nationals automatic visas, but I sure find it immoral. But that's just my opinion. I just hope I can keep my status. |
Japan has a foreigner management system, not an immigration policy. Foreigners who are used to hearing debates about immigration in their home country framed in moral and economic terms are often confused by this. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 1:04 pm Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| bluetortilla wrote: |
Maybe Japan doesn't see any need for allowing the parents of Japanese nationals automatic visas, but I sure find it immoral. |
Do many countries give automatic visas to non-national parents? |
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bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| HLJHLJ wrote: |
| bluetortilla wrote: |
Maybe Japan doesn't see any need for allowing the parents of Japanese nationals automatic visas, but I sure find it immoral. |
Do many countries give automatic visas to non-national parents? |
I don't but do you think they shouldn't? Would you like to be in a situation where you could not reside where your kids live?
If I had my way the world would not have visas, passports, or nations. We wouldn't be herded in camps. But that's not the way it is obviously.
Anyway- not to get off the subject, but I find such an interjection quite provocative. And depressing. |
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HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: |
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You are reading an awful lot into a simple question.
I was interested to know whether this is a typical immigration rule that most countries have, or just a Japanese immigration issue. Nothing more than that.
I'm sorry if the question upset you. |
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bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:46 pm Post subject: Re: Eligible for national health insurance? |
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| cat mother wrote: |
| bluetortilla wrote: |
So-- when I left Japan I lost my residency but not 'permanent residency' 永住権 visa status. |
I am pretty sure that there are limits as to how long a permanent resident can stay outside of Japan without losing the PR status. |
If there is I've never seen the limit. I was last in Japan in January and they said I need to come back within five years (the expiration of the reentry permit).
I doesn't seem like Japan has a 'use it or lose it' policy like the U.S.A. I could be wrong, but I don't think so. It seems to be OK as long as you keep everything up to date. If you owe money (taxes, pension, etc.), they will tell you.
| cat mother wrote: |
But that aside, if you speak and read Japanese, wouldn't it be better to contact the ward office or city hall in the place you're planning to stay and ask them directly what you should do?
Having said that, if you have your residence card and it says "permanent resident" on it, you just go to the city office and sign up for health insurance. Don't be surprised if they ask to see the stamps in your passport to check when you re-entered Japan. |
I called the ward office but they said I would just have to come in and ask. But with temporary housing and concerns about status (above), I wonder if I shouldn't just pay medical out of hand? Is it certain that immigration and the residency are separate? I read in other forums that you could have trouble with having no fixed address. But when I came in last January no one said a thing. In fact, when I applied for another reentry permit I told immigration I did not have a fixed address and they told me to just use the last address I registered. They also used this address for my new residency card.
Does immigration at the airport actually check such things? I feel that people writing on the forum I was looking at were being quite speculative, not giving examples of people they knew.
Of course, there is an arbitrariness to things like this so you just have to keep your fingers crossed I guess. |
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bluetortilla
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
Posts: 815
Location: Henan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| HLJHLJ wrote: |
You are reading an awful lot into a simple question.
I was interested to know whether this is a typical immigration rule that most countries have, or just a Japanese immigration issue. Nothing more than that.
I'm sorry if the question upset you. |
I'm sorry too! I'm just super sensitive right now. Wondering if I can get insurance for two months (o in fact if I have to! that's what the law seems to say), if I have to register as I'm staying over two weeks, etc. Don't want to arouse suspicion and don't want to lose my status or the possibility of living near my kids.
I don't know if it's typical or not. I would think it is. It should be if it's not as every parent just about wants to be near their kids. It would be good to find out.
I think the U.S. allows it if the child is over 18. That's not great but better than Japan. My daughter is 17! : D So I'd be set if the same rule applied in Japan... |
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