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Jerome Baxter
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 58
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:27 am Post subject: |
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fat_chris
Joined: 10 Sep 2003 Posts: 3198 Location: Beijing
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:33 am Post subject: |
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Warm regards,
fat_ _chris |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 916
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:57 am Post subject: Re: Callout for submissions: Unpaid labour in the language t |
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The problem is that we all get paid for our labour.
I think that there is also a misnomer by newbies who take salaried positions and expect to be paid by the hour rather than by the job and the job requires things like prep and marking so they whine about "unpaid work".
If they don't like the job. Don't take the job. Its not like marking and prep are unexpected duties for a teacher.
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LongShiKong
Joined: 28 May 2007 Posts: 1082 Location: China
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Posted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
The problem is that we all get paid for our labour. |
The OP is referring to unpaid obligations beyond prep. In public education including TESL (which I presume the OP is interested in), it may very well be an area of contention, especially for those paying union dues (regardless of income or benefit package).
But in the TEFL world, market-forces dictate what employers can and can't get away. And that's doubly true for the minority of us native-English speakers. |
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Daveric
Joined: 03 Jan 2014 Posts: 37
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Callout for submissions: Unpaid labour in the language t |
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suphanburi wrote: |
The problem is that we all get paid for our labour. |
Not all of us get paid for all our labor. If one has a full-time job in which you get paid for 40 hrs/wk while teaching 20, I have no problem with putting in time for prep, marking, meetings, etc. But it is not fair for a part-timer only getting paid for teaching hours to be asked to do all the rest for free. Some schools recognize this by paying an "administrative rate" for work outside the classroom which is generally half the classroom rate. Imho, it's not enough but is better than nothing which is what most are paying. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 916
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Posted: Tue Jun 24, 2014 4:49 am Post subject: Re: Callout for submissions: Unpaid labour in the language t |
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Daveric wrote: |
suphanburi wrote: |
The problem is that we all get paid for our labour. |
Not all of us get paid for all our labor. If one has a full-time job in which you get paid for 40 hrs/wk while teaching 20, I have no problem with putting in time for prep, marking, meetings, etc. But it is not fair for a part-timer only getting paid for teaching hours to be asked to do all the rest for free. Some schools recognize this by paying an "administrative rate" for work outside the classroom which is generally half the classroom rate. Imho, it's not enough but is better than nothing which is what most are paying. |
Hourly workers are not salaried workers.
If someone doesn't have the wherewithal to say no and/or walk away or negotiate for a package (class and prep time) then they get what they asked for.
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Jerome Baxter
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 58
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Suph, I think that's a bit of a strange attitude, to be honest.
TEFL is highly, highly profitable industry. Yet, very few teachers make enough to survive on long-term and employment (especially in English speaking countries) is increasingly precarious. Employers exploit the fact that it's a mostly young workforce, often working for beer and travel money.
And part of that exploitation is excessive unpaid prep, unpaid meetings, unpaid social events, etc. That things needs to be challenged and challenges are far more effective when done collectively.
It's all well and good to say it's on YOU to walk away or renegotiate a contract, but life isn't that simple. You could be in a foreign country, not speaking the language, reliant on your employer for working papers. Or you could have to pay rent in a city with a tight job market where walking away isn't such a simple option.
Again, here, sticking together as language teaching workers is going to be key to getting better pay and conditions. And that's what the project linked to in the OP is about. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014 Posts: 916
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 11:51 am Post subject: |
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Jerome Baxter wrote: |
It's all well and good to say it's on YOU to walk away or renegotiate a contract, but life isn't that simple. You could be in a foreign country, not speaking the language, reliant on your employer for working papers. Or you could have to pay rent in a city with a tight job market where walking away isn't such a simple option. |
Yes, it really is that simple.
You can only be exploited if you want to be and that includes those of us (myself included) who are in foreign lands and who are dependent on our employers for working papers.
If you take up globe trotting and don't have the money for an exit ticket before you start then you get what you asked for.
It is as simple as getting a bus, train or plane ticket to the next country or back to your home.
For those in their own countries it really is as simple as saying no or walking out. There is no-one holding a gun to their heads and there is always another option; even in a tough job market.
It is the fools who don't just walk away that are one of the causes of the problem.
Employers can exploit them because they are too stupid to just leave.
Employers can't exploit someone who isn't there not can they run their business.
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johnslat

Joined: 21 Jan 2003 Posts: 13859 Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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Dear suphanburi,
Jerome Baxter: " . . . . walking away isn't such a simple option."
suphanburi: "Yes, it really is that simple."
Not in a country such as Saudi Arabia, where one needs an exit visa, which can be gotten only by one's employer (and where knocking on doors in-country to find another job isn't an option).
Regards,
John |
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spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:49 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Again, here, sticking together as language teaching workers is going to be key to getting better pay and conditions. And that's what the project linked to in the OP is about. |
But 'sticking together' is really an impossibility when you are talking about people working on different continents. There simply isn't enough overlap in conditions, laws, and oversight to make a global project to 'stick together' feasible. Johnslat's just given a useful example above.
Limiting it to regions would make the effort at least slightly more viable. |
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Jerome Baxter
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 58
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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Spiral, well, sure, you've got to start somewhere.
For me, it always starts with your immediate co-workers. However, there's a real value in sharing stories - showing that regardless of continents, there is an overlap in the problems we face and thinking about ways, on the ground, that we can fight back.
In fact, if you look at that link from the OP, that's part of the goal of the project: looking at successful strategies and examples of how TEFL workers fought back against unpaid work.
Suph, I know it's a fairly hackneyed example, but let's take a look at the sweatshop conditions that were once standard in the UK and the US in the textile industry - 16 hours a day, and starvation wages.
What do you think would have happened if the only response of workers had been to leave and look for a better job? Sure you might have found something marginally better, but we don't change conditions across an industry through small acts like that. It was only when workers got together and began demanding changes from their employers and across the industry that conditions changed on a mass scale.
Look, I'm not opposed to people individually fighting for better contracts and leaving shoddy language schools. But I want a living wage and decent conditions for all TEFL workers. We won't accomplish that through acting individually. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013 Posts: 1364 Location: Flying around the ME...
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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Jerome Baxter wrote: |
I know it's a fairly hackneyed example, but let's take a look at the sweatshop conditions that were once standard in the UK and the US in the textile industry - 16 hours a day, and starvation wages.
What do you think would have happened if the only response of workers had been to leave and look for a better job? Sure you might have found something marginally better, but we don't change conditions across an industry through small acts like that. It was only when workers got together and began demanding changes from their employers and across the industry that conditions changed on a mass scale. |
But the response of the capitalists was just to shift the sweatshops to other countries.... |
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Jerome Baxter
Joined: 27 May 2014 Posts: 58
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Well, to be fair, that took well over a century to happen. And in the intervening time, textile work was a good living wage job with union benefits.
And it's not like modern textile workers haven't continued to struggle against sweatshop conditions. The working class in Bangladesh is probably the most strike-prone in the world and the majority of them are textile workers.
In the case of TEFL, what economists refers to as a "spacial fix" is actually less feasible - after all, people need to learn English at accessible distances in the cities where they live. |
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MuscatGary
Joined: 03 Jun 2013 Posts: 1364 Location: Flying around the ME...
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Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:08 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, the 'product' in this case needs to be delivered close to the end-consumer but the quick fix that I've seen happening at a massive rate this year (in Oman) is for language course deliverers, state and private, to cut wages, reduce the benefits and employ more and more teachers from the Indian sub-continent, the Phillipines and various African and Arabic countries instead of native-speakers. Trust me there's no shortage of Indian English teachers willing to work for a fraction of the cost of a Westerner and without the long annual holidays etc.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a lifelong Trade Unionist (full-timer for a while) and support the ideals of collective action but the logistics of this are massive. There are also problems because the industry atttracts a lot of mavericks who are unlikely to show much solidarity and many come from countries where trade unionism is regarded with suspicion. |
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