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MA for teaching or Japanese language school?
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teacherfromca



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 3:44 am    Post subject: MA for teaching or Japanese language school? Reply with quote

Can anyone advise me on this. I definitely want to return to Japan and live there a long time but not sure what the best course of action is.

I now have the opportunity to go to grad school, as I've been accepted, to start my MA in applied linguistics in the US but I just realized I wont get any financial aid for it. The way it works for residents in California is you usually get grants to help pay for college, but without that I am facing debt to the tune of over 50,000 usd. However will it pay off in the long run with my MA getting me better and longer term jobs in Japan. Or

Pay considerably less, for sure less than 30,000 usd for a couple of years of intensive Japanese study ( I already have a good grasp of the language but not fluent) to gain Japanese fluency and maybe get a job that requires Japanese and English skills, not necessarily teaching?

I'm thinking between the two options, money aside, Japanese fluency will open more opportunities for me in Japan. Any advice would be appreciated. I'm American with a few years of experience living in Japan and in my 30s. Thanks.
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:21 am    Post subject: Re: MA for teaching or Japanese language school? Reply with quote

What's so awesome about Japan that you're willing to make an enormous investment of time, effort and money for, at best, a dead-end permatemp career as a low-rankng college EFL teacher?

(I really, really hope you don't say "the women".)

Take that time and money, and use it to retrain in whatever skills are in demand in your home country.
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fat_chris



Joined: 10 Sep 2003
Posts: 3198
Location: Beijing

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: MA for teaching or Japanese language school? Reply with quote

Pitarou wrote:
Take that time and money, and use it to retrain in whatever skills are in demand in your home country.


This.

Go for an MBA?

Pitarou wrote:
(I really, really hope you don't say "the women".)


Seconded.

Warm regards,
fat_chris
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teacherfromca



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go for an MBA, why? Stay in my country, why? What makes you guys think that's for me? Not what I'm interested in. Home country doesn't necessarily mean better. Women are everywhere, not just in Japan. Like it or not fatchirs and pitarou, anyway you cut it, Japan is where I will be.
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jtea



Joined: 22 Apr 2014
Posts: 69

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 5:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacherfromca wrote:
Go for an MBA, why? Stay in my country, why? What makes you guys think that's for me? Not what I'm interested in. Home country doesn't necessarily mean better. Women are everywhere, not just in Japan. Like it or not fatchirs and pitarou, anyway you cut it, Japan is where I will be.


Well, you just answered your own question...
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

teacherfromca wrote:
Stay in my country, why?.

Well, maybe not stay in your home country, but coming to Japan is the kiss of death for your career. Even as an English teacher, you won't get far up that slippery pole if you insist on handicapping yourself by staying in Japan.

If you have highly sought after skills (teaching English doesn't count) or if you are entrepreneurial enough to "make your own path" then you can ignore what I said. But if that's the case, you don't need advice from a bunch of losers like us.

By the way, the reason why I said "the women" is that, in conversations like this one, this often turns out to be a big motivator. Come to think of it, I'm here because I married a Japanese woman, so I guess you could throw me in that category if you wanted to. Wink
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teacherfromca



Joined: 02 Feb 2012
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pitarou wrote:
teacherfromca wrote:
Stay in my country, why?.

Well, maybe not stay in your home country, but coming to Japan is the kiss of death for your career. Even as an English teacher, you won't get far up that slippery pole if you insist on handicapping yourself by staying in Japan.

If you have highly sought after skills (teaching English doesn't count) or if you are entrepreneurial enough to "make your own path" then you can ignore what I said. But if that's the case, you don't need advice from a bunch of losers like us.

By the way, the reason why I said "the women" is that, in conversations like this one, this often turns out to be a big motivator. Come to think of it, I'm here because I married a Japanese woman, so I guess you could throw me in that category if you wanted to. Wink


Fair enough.
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Futureal



Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 17

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pitarou wrote:

Well, maybe not stay in your home country, but coming to Japan is the kiss of death for your career. Even as an English teacher, you won't get far up that slippery pole if you insist on handicapping yourself by staying in Japan.


Why do you say that? Lack of transferable skills, overadapation to a particular way of teaching, etc?
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Futureal wrote:
Pitarou wrote:

Well, maybe not stay in your home country, but coming to Japan is the kiss of death for your career. Even as an English teacher, you won't get far up that slippery pole if you insist on handicapping yourself by staying in Japan.


Why do you say that? Lack of transferable skills, overadapation to a particular way of teaching, etc?

Glass ceiling. People end up in "permatemp" status, on a succession of short-term contracts. The only way up is out of Japan.
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, I'm also a little fed up of hearing the old "Why do you wanna be in Japan so much?" questions from some of the regulars here. It's kind of a hypocritical thing to say really, since many of us, for whatever reason, have made the choice to live here for an extended period of time. The OP has lived here before, so I'm sure he's got an idea of what he's getting into and is a grown up enough to decide for himself if he wants to be in Japan.

Anyway, I don't know anything about MA's or Japanese Language schools, so I'm not sure if my advise is worth anything, but I'd never recommend a language school to anyone, it's a waste of time and money IMHO. You can become fluent in Japanese/ improve your Japanese while working in a school and getting paid. Just sign up for one of the ALT dispatch companies that don't expect much of you, walk into school, teach/stand around in a few lessons and then spend the rest of the day studying/chatting to the teachers and students.

But then again, I can't really recommend doing an MA either. From what I've read and heard, University positions are getting very competitive and more and more positions are requiring recent publications, an MA, a young pretty face etc etc.

And what do they generally offer? Anywhere between 300,000 and about 500,000 if you're lucky and a 2-4 year contract before you're cast away to be replaced by a new face. Then you have to go through the effort of searching for another job again and possibly moving across the country to a place you don't really want to be. Doesn't seem worth it to me. Much better to spend that time and effort building something for yourself like a school, business or a string of private lessons.
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Pitarou



Joined: 16 Nov 2009
Posts: 1116
Location: Narita, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nightsintodreams wrote:
Yea, I'm also a little fed up of hearing the old "Why do you wanna be in Japan so much?" questions from some of the regulars here. It's kind of a hypocritical thing to say really, since many of us, for whatever reason, have made the choice to live here for an extended period of time. The OP has lived here before, so I'm sure he's got an idea of what he's getting into and is a grown up enough to decide for himself if he wants to be in Japan.

I take this attitude because I honestly believe that people who have this wide-eyed omygodjapanissoawesome attitude need a reality check. There seem to be a lot of people who had a good 2--3 years as a JET, and think it will stay just as good if they come back for 20--30 years. But Japan doesn't really want you for the long term.

I don't think I'm hypocritical. I didn't come here because I thought Japan was wonderful or that being in Japan would make my life intrinsically better. Like I said earlier, I came here because my wife is Japanese and ... well ... the rest is personal, but I'm sure you can imagine.

Still, it's good to hear your more positive attitude. And that's good advice about learning Japanese.
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nightsintodreams



Joined: 18 May 2010
Posts: 558

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I take this attitude because I honestly believe that people who have this wide-eyed omygodjapanissoawesome attitude need a reality check.


I agree, but there's nothing to suggest the poster is one of those types.

Quote:
But Japan doesn't really want you for the long term


I'm not sure that any country wants or doesn't want anyone for the long term. I think I know what you're getting at though, you mean to say that there isn't much of a chance to progress through a company and have regular pay rises, right? And people treat you as a foreigner? Well, to that I say, make something for yourself, like your own school or focus on freelancing.

I for one feel like I have more opportunities here in Japan than in my home country, but that's just me. Depending on your situation, things could be different.

Out of interest, what would your definition of a country that wants us be?

Quote:
I don't think I'm hypocritical. I didn't come here because I thought Japan was wonderful or that being in Japan would make my life intrinsically better. Like I said earlier, I came here because my wife is Japanese and ... well ... the rest is personal, but I'm sure you can imagine.


Fair enough, I personally came here because I liked video games, thought Japan looked like a cool place to live, wanted to live abroad and thought Asian girls were hot. Did my preconceptions regarding Japan match the reality? Absolutely, not, but I've enjoyed my time here and have no plans to leave in the foreseeable future. I don't think everyone needs to have a wife or super majime personal reasons to move to another country. Liking the look of a country can be a good enough reason for one to give it a try.

Of course that doesn't mean it's going to work out and turn into a long term thing for everyone, but it also doesn't mean that it's any less of a valid reason than yours. Yes, I've met many Japanophiles who come here and are gone in a few months when reality hits them, but I've also met a fair few guys who came here for their wives/family, can't speak a single word of Japanese and are absolutely miserable with their life here.

I could say to guys with Japanese spouses contemplating a move to Japan...

"Why do you want to come to Japan so much? I'm fed up of people with Japanese wives coming here and thinking life is going to be sweet! It's not! It's going to be horrible and you're going to be miserable, and you'll probably be drowning your sorrows at the local gaijin bar every weekend, so don't even bother coming!"

...but then I realise that not everyone has the same experiences and they're old enough to make their own decision and find out for themselves.
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Maitoshi



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is it because we move to Japan that we are miserable? Might it be that the reason for our misery is because we brought the Japanese spouse along with us, or perhaps that we are just miserable people in general, who would bring our misery along with us, wherever we might go?

This is not to say that I'm miserable, because quite the opposite is true, but rather to suggest there may be other reasons people drown their sorrows with their poison of choice Smile
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rtm



Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject: Re: MA for teaching or Japanese language school? Reply with quote

Getting back to the OP's situation...

teacherfromca wrote:
I now have the opportunity to go to grad school, as I've been accepted, to start my MA in applied linguistics in the US but I just realized I wont get any financial aid for it. The way it works for residents in California is you usually get grants to help pay for college, but without that I am facing debt to the tune of over 50,000 usd. However will it pay off in the long run with my MA getting me better and longer term jobs in Japan. Or

Pay considerably less, for sure less than 30,000 usd for a couple of years of intensive Japanese study ( I already have a good grasp of the language but not fluent) to gain Japanese fluency and maybe get a job that requires Japanese and English skills, not necessarily teaching?

The question you need to answer is "what job do you want to have?"

Once you answer that, you can work backward and see what course of action (which may or may not be one of the 2 options you discussed above) would get you to that job.

Do you want to make a career out of teaching English? If yes, then you should do an MA in AppLing or TESOL. If you do choose to go that route, I would not recommend the situation you described, going $50,000 in debt. There are many opportunities to do an MA for free or nearly free, and to get valuable experience along the way.

However, if you don't want to have a career teaching English, then what career do you want? And, will increased Japanese ability help you to get work in that career path?

Note that I ask about what job you want. People get training and education in order to do a job. "Living in Japan" is not a job.
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Maitoshi



Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも

PostPosted: Thu Jun 05, 2014 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is some very good advice, rtm!

The only part I disagree with is the last bit. Living in Japan can seem like a job in and of itself. It certainly isn't a picnic the whole time.
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