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tyroleanhat
Joined: 21 Oct 2013
Posts: 209
Location: Austria / China
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 Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:26 pm Post subject: 2 contracts? |
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I have a great position at a Uni in changsha (teaching piano) - amazing salary, Uni loves me, I love them back.
Now I will start my doctorate in the USA, because I got a full scholarship in a reputable Uni.
So my Chinese Uni had the idea to keep me as a visiting scholar, win win because I can keep my foot in that Uni, while they still can learn from me.
means, in my PhD vacation I will live on that Chinese Uni's campus on a contract (May/June every year). nice salary and a two-way flight included.
My work will be simple: 1 or 2 days/week giving a lecture, concert or "master class" (a word musicians use to describe public lessons or workshops).
The thing is, as much as I love the school - but in the long run, after my PhD, I want to be in a nicer (and less hot and polluted) city than Changsha.
So my ideal is, after the PhD, to have a regular position in my favored city, with occasional trips to that Uni in Changsha to be a visiting scholar (the nice extra money being of course a reason).
But I can legally only have one job - can't I?
Or is it possible, is there some way to have two contracts in different cities, with the mutual acceptance of my two employers? My Uni would support me in any of my plans.
Of course I remember reading discussions on here, that the z-visa allows only one job and end of story. But since this is China, I wonder if there are other ways, around, above, or underneath it.
Last edited by tyroleanhat on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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tyroleanhat
Joined: 21 Oct 2013
Posts: 209
Location: Austria / China
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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After thinking it over again, I may have found the answer myself.
I could just have a regular job in my prefered city, and travel to the Changsha Uni whenever they want my lecture/concert/masterclass, but I ask them to just pay me unofficially. I think they would be up for it. But I guess they would prefer to have me officially, to put me on their website and show off a bit the foreign musician they hired. |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2014 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| tyroleanhat wrote: |
I have a great position at a Uni in changsha (teaching piano) - amazing salary, Uni loves me, I love them back.
Now I will start my doctorate in the USA, because I got a full scholarship in a reputable Uni.
So my Chinese Uni had the idea to keep me as a visiting scholar, win win because I can keep my foot in that Uni, while they still can learn from me.
means, in my PhD vacation I will live on that Chinese Uni's campus on a contract (May/June every year). nice salary and a two-way flight included.
My work will be simple: 1 or 2 days/week giving a lecture, concert or "master class" (a word musicians use to describe public lessons or workshops).
The thing is, as much as I love the school - but in the long run, after my PhD, I want to be in a nicer (and less hot and polluted) city than Changsha.
So my ideal is, after the PhD, to have a regular position in my favored city, with occasional trips to that Uni in Changsha to be a visiting scholar (the nice extra money being of course a reason).
But I can legally only have one job - can't I?
Or is it possible, is there some way to have two contracts in different cities, with the mutual acceptance of my two employers? My Uni would support me in any of my plans.
Of course I remember reading discussions on here, that the z-visa allows only one job and end of story. But since this is China, I wonder if there are other ways, around, above, or underneath it. |
| tyroleanhat wrote: |
After thinking it over again, I may have found the answer myself.
I could just have a regular job in my prefered city, and travel to the Changsha Uni whenever they want my lecture/concert/masterclass, but I ask them to just pay me unofficially. I think they would be up for it. But I guess they would prefer to have me officially, to put me on their website and show off a bit the foreign musician they hired. |
Good that you found a solution because...TIC. Here it is hard enough to know what is going on or how the authorities or schools will act or react right now in the present, hindsight often doesn't help, and you are asking about years into the future! |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 3:05 am Post subject: |
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What is a "Ph.D vacation"?
What will be your doctoral dissertation? |
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tyroleanhat
Joined: 21 Oct 2013
Posts: 209
Location: Austria / China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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yes it's a long time until then, but I already wanted to start brainstorming what I could do later.
by PhD-vacation I meant the 3 months summer break.
I will not write a big dissertation, Doctorates in performing arts are different than the usual PhD.
I have to do plenty of other stuff instead (lecture recitals etc) |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Am I the only one that doesn't understand the point of PhD's for performing arts? This may sound rude but it's not meant to be. I really don't know. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| tyroleanhat wrote: |
yes it's a long time until then, but I already wanted to start brainstorming what I could do later.
by PhD-vacation I meant the 3 months summer break.
I will not write a big dissertation, Doctorates in performing arts are different than the usual PhD.
I have to do plenty of other stuff instead (lecture recitals etc) |
That is bizarre. Even MA level students in music produce a composition and/or a dissertation that shows that they have increased their knowledge and have added to the discourse in their discipline.
Ph.Ds are expected not only to increase their knowledge of the discipline but to engage in discourse in the area and to add to the body of knowledge. That you would be excepted from a doctoral dissertation/treatise is strange, if not bizarre.
Take a look at Juilliard's dissertation requirements. Scroll down to "Doctoral Dissertation":
http://catalog.juilliard.edu/preview_entity.php?catoid=17&ent_oid=1857#Foreign_Language_Requirement
Then take a look at NYU's web page regarding doctoral dissertations:
http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/music/doctoral/proposal
Then Take a look at Columbia University's Ph.D in Music Doctoral dissertation page:
http://music.columbia.edu/programs/grad/handbook/phddiss
Then take a look at FSU's Doctoral page. FSU requires a "treatise" rather than a dissertation". A Treatise is like a short dissertation. It may be an Opus. I'm sure that you're familiar with that.
http://www.music.fsu.edu/Current-Students/Graduate/Graduate-Music-Student-Handbook/Handbook-Contents/Prospectus-Thesis-Treatise-Dissertation/Doctoral-Dissertation-Treatise
Then take a look at the University of North Texas' Ph.D program
(see p.7):
http://music.unt.edu/downloads/handbooks/MusicEducationPhd.pdf
Then take a look at UNC-CH's dissertation requirements:
http://music.unc.edu/graduate/grad_degree_info/handbook
That's a pretty good range of college tiers.
"...I will start my doctorate in the USA, because I got a full scholarship in a reputable Uni. ..."
I think you should take another look at your music school's Ph.D requirements. I've NEVER heard of a Ph.D taking a vacation during the summer. Ph.D programs are grueling and require constant study, even if you drag it out for 4-6 years. In addition to your dissertation, you will need to prepare for your orals, and you'll probably have to do something in a foreign language.
I've never heard of a Ph.D program that didn't require some sort of proof that the candidate has added to the body of knowledge in his discipline. I don't think that a recital of someone else's composition qualifies.
Again, re-read the schools' Ph.D Music requirements.
Reason for edit: grammar.
Last edited by Bud Powell on Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:31 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry Legend wrote: |
| Am I the only one that doesn't understand the point of PhD's for performing arts? This may sound rude but it's not meant to be. I really don't know. |
The highest-paying jobs in universities go to the Ph.D's, plus Ph.D's are eligible for tenure. A third or fourth tier Ph.D in English can command up to $120,000.00 per year, as long as he doesn't do something that gets him knocked down a pay grade or gets him fired. I don't know what a Ph.D Music gets paid. If he's a renowned performer, and is a professor emeritus, he can get top pay scale for his university's system.
Even with a Ph.D, one is no longer guaranteed a job, and he isn't guaranteed tenure. Even if one gains tenure, he is still susceptible to tenure review if his colleagues on the graduate faculty turn on him. One is much better off if he stays at an MA level lecturer, brown-noses the graduate program faculty until he is renamed Hoover, then weasels his way into permanent employment status. (I learned of this status at my alma mater just recently).
Politics in American Academia s*cks mightily. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:21 pm Post subject: |
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| I guess what I'm asking is how is it relevant towards playing a piano or teaching the piano? Forgive my ignorance. Just not sure why schools would give a damn about a PhD for this field. |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Jul 02, 2014 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
What is a "Ph.D vacation"?
What will be your doctoral dissertation? |
| tyroleanhat wrote: |
by PhD-vacation I meant the 3 months summer break.
I will not write a big dissertation, Doctorates in performing arts are different than the usual PhD.
I have to do plenty of other stuff instead (lecture recitals etc) |
Bud, I do not understand why you would choose to (publicly) post your concerns about the OP's Ph.D program instead of sending a PM. Considering the OP did answer your original two questions and the Ph.D is in music not English teaching -and so this discussion is of little value to almost all if not all us English teachers. I could have sent you a PM but I post here in the same concerned and helpful spirit you posted your last reply I copied above. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:01 am Post subject: |
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I respectfully redirect you to the links that I posted. They are for Ph.D programs in Music at several different universities, not in English. Also note that in each program a doctoral dissertation is required, something that every accredited Ph.D program requires. It doesn't matter if it's in music, archaeology, or finance. One must engage in discourse that furthers the knowledge and understanding of the discipline.
I saw no reason to send a PM. I was merely advising the OP to review his program requirements. I was not trying to belittle him in public or to call him a BS artist. Check the tone of my post.
It would be a shame for one to enter a Ph.D program believing that it is a walk in the park. It isn't. It's sort of like people who plan to come to China not knowing some very basic realities of life in China, then arrive and find out that what they envisioned doesn't match the reality.
It's like what my Latin teacher was fond of saying: "Spes non consilium est." Hope is not a plan.
Considering the OP did answer your original two questions and the Ph.D is in music not English teaching -and so this discussion is of little value to almost all if not all us English teachers.
But not everyone who participates in the forum is an English teacher. I don't think that I was in error by pointing out the requirements for a Ph.D in accredited music programs. I may have saved him from certain disaster. Isn't that a good thing?
Now anyone who is not an English teacher and who reads this thread has a little more knowledge of academia outside of his discipline. Knowledge is a good thing, no?
Last edited by Bud Powell on Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:30 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| Larry Legend wrote: |
| I guess what I'm asking is how is it relevant towards playing a piano or teaching the piano? Forgive my ignorance. Just not sure why schools would give a damn about a PhD for this field. |
Larry Legend,
Most universities want Ph.D programs for all disciplines, no matter how silly it seems because the more Ph.D programs a university offers, the more research is conducted, and the more money the university can collect in grants. Funding is paramount in a school's acquisition of prestige.
Must one have a Ph.D to be a great musician? Good question. Thelonius Monk, one of the most influential jazz pianists of the 20th century attended Stuyvesant High School in NYC, but didn't graduate. Bud Powell, my namesake, had no formal musical education. He learned to play in bars. He was Monk's protege.
Those who choose not to risk abject poverty in the music business often choose the academic route. The top of the pay scale is to be found at the Ph.D level. One can be assured that a musician of Ph.D competency is worthy of the title "Professional". Universities will recognize self-taught players with Honorary Doctorates, but it isn't often that they're hired to teach at the Ph.D level. (It does happen sometimes).
Why are they offered? Prestige and funding. |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:04 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
I respectfully redirect you to the links that I posted. They are for Ph.D programs in Music at several different universities, not in English. Also note that in each program a doctoral dissertation is required, something that every accredited Ph.D program requires. It doesn't matter if it's in music, archaeology, or finance. One must engage in discourse that furthers the knowledge and understanding of the discipline.
I saw no reason to send a PM. I was merely advising the OP to review his program requirements. I was not trying to belittle him in public or to call him a BS artist. Check the tone of my post.
It would be a shame for one to enter a Ph.D program believing that it is a walk in the park. It isn't. It's sort of like people who plan to come to China not knowing some very basic realities of life in China, then arrive and find out that what they envisioned doesn't match the reality.
It's like what my Latin teacher was fond of saying: "Spes non consilium est." Hope is not a plan.
Considering the OP did answer your original two questions and the Ph.D is in music not English teaching -and so this discussion is of little value to almost all if not all us English teachers.
But not everyone who participates in the forum is an English teacher. I don't think that I was in error by pointing out the requirements for a Ph.D in accredited music programs. I may have saved him from certain disaster. Isn't that a good thing?
Now anyone who is not an English teacher and who reads this thread has a little more knowledge of academia outside of his discipline. Knowledge is a good thing, no? |
Respectfully:
I assume your whole post is directed at me.
Yes, I saw the many links you posted.
I do not know why you wrote that 2nd sentence.
The public posting of the great lengths (excessive lengths?) you have gone to to (attempt to) prove the OP is wrong and that you are right can be seen as belittling the OP.
Ph.Ds in music have nothing to do with TEFL -the topic of this forum- hence a PM would have been more appropriate, and would have achieved your stated goal of helping the OP.
Your stated goal could have been achieved in a couple of sentences if you wanted to post in public. |
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Larry Legend
Joined: 12 May 2014
Posts: 172
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Larry Legend wrote: |
| I guess what I'm asking is how is it relevant towards playing a piano or teaching the piano? Forgive my ignorance. Just not sure why schools would give a damn about a PhD for this field. |
Larry Legend,
Most universities want Ph.D programs for all disciplines, no matter how silly it seems because the more Ph.D programs a university offers, the more research is conducted, and the more money the university can collect in grants. Funding is paramount in a school's acquisition of prestige.
Must one have a Ph.D to be a great musician? Good question. Thelonius Monk, one of the most influential jazz pianists of the 20th century attended Stuyvesant High School in NYC, but didn't graduate. Bud Powell, my namesake, had no formal musical education. He learned to play in bars. He was Monk's protege.
Those who choose not to risk abject poverty in the music business often choose the academic route. The top of the pay scale is to be found at the Ph.D level. One can be assured that a musician of Ph.D competency is worthy of the title "Professional". Universities will recognize self-taught players with Honorary Doctorates, but it isn't often that they're hired to teach at the Ph.D level. (It does happen sometimes).
Why are they offered? Prestige and funding. |
Thanks |
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tyroleanhat
Joined: 21 Oct 2013
Posts: 209
Location: Austria / China
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| Posted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 7:58 am Post subject: |
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ok, I created some confusion by (for the sake of simplification) labeling my doctorate program a "PhD", but to be more precise it is a "Performance DMA" (doctor of musical arts). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Musical_Arts
Performance DMA's are less research-oriented than the conventional PhDs, but it will not be a walk in the park by any means. Still, in Summer I will be off-campus for 3 months - The perfect time to be a visiting scholar in China - having enough free time to prepare for the next DMA exams or whatever preparation.
A whole other issue was the concern about whether I should or should not make the DMA? After a long period of considering the pros and cons, my conclusion was "Yes".
I asked many people, their opinion differed greatly. In the end I decided to do it, even if it was just for my own feeling of added professionalism and immersion in my art. |
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