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strovo123
Joined: 07 Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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 Posted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 11:52 pm Post subject: Best countries with an MA in Applied Linguistics/TESOL? |
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Hello, all, I am first-time poster. I have lurked for a bit, but I am trying to make sure I am understanding things right about my degree.
Middle Eastern countries seem to be the best place to go with an M.A. in applied linguistics (economically speaking). However, like many others, the Middle East is not my ideal destination. I would much rather like university work at a big city like Shanghai or Seoul. Mostly, I am looking to pay down loans, and eventually return to work in the United States working in universities/other areas with adults. Way down the line I may go for a PhD in second-language acquisition.
So: would you guys add any other places to think about with a degree other than KSA, Oman, UAE or whatever else is in the Middle East? Feel free to interpret "best" however you like as long as you explain why.
--About me
I am 25. My background is in print journalism. I will finish an MA in applied linguistics/TESOL from a top program in spring 2015. I am still trying to decide on a language: mulling over taking Chinese or Korean. I need more experience, but:
--Experience by the time I complete the program
12 months at a Spanish-speaking organization (4 hrs a week)
4 months University IEP tutoring (including many KSA students)
4 months University IEP teaching (including many KSA students)
4 months at International Rescue Committe (2 hrs a week, though)
1 month summer teaching at Tsinghua University in Beijing.
Last edited by strovo123 on Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:41 am; edited 6 times in total |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| You mentioned twice that you don't want to teach in the Middle East, yet, you plan to study Arabic (rather reluctantly)? Okay, so if I ignore that part of your post, the answer to your question about where you can teach with an MA in Applied Ling is anywhere your qualifications (newly-minted degree + spotty teaching experience) are accepted. Obviously, as an American, parts of Europe are off limits to you, so that leaves pretty much the rest of the world. Anyway, once you finish your degree, consider those countries you're interested in and start applying for positions you're qualified for. It's fairly straight forward. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:00 am Post subject: Re: Best countries with an MA in Applied Linguistics? |
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| strovo123 wrote: |
Hello, all, I am first-time poster. I have lurked for a bit, but I am trying to make sure I am understanding things right about my degree.
Middle Eastern countries seem to be the best place to go with an M.A. in applied linguistics (economically speaking). However, like many others, the Middle East is not my ideal destination. I would much rather like something like Seoul or a city in Japan: clean, safe, somewhat Westernized. Though I dream about such positions, I am looking to pay down loans, and then return to work in the United States working in universities/other areas with adults.
So: would you guys add any other places to think about with a degree other than KSA, Oman, UAE or whatever else is in the Middle East?
--About me
I will finish an MA in applied linguistics from a top program in spring 2015. I will probably take 2 semesters of Arabic (Though I am more interested in Korean, Japanese, and Chinese!) I know I need more experience but:
--Experience by the time I complete the program
12 months at a Spanish-speaking organization (4 hrs a week)
4 months University IEP tutoring (including many KSA students)
4 months University IEP teaching (including many KSA students)
4 months at International Rescue Committe (2 hrs a week, though)
1 month summer teaching at Tsinghua University in Beijing. |
Green as grass,
Fresh off the plane,
NO real classroom experience,
US passport - never lived abroad,
MA in applied linguistics - undergrad unknown
(largish) loans to pay down/off.
Truth be told, if you stay focused on paying down the loans and stay out of the politics of the job then Korea is still your best option (public school jobs - licensure not required). http://www.epik.go.kr/
Your first year will let you pay down about $12k (and still enjoy a comfortable lifestyle).
By your 3rd year you should be able to knock down about $15-18k per year off your loans.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/index.php (separate registration required).
AFTER you get some classroom experience (1700-2000 classroom hours (2 years)) under your belt then other options will open up that still allow for decent savings (loan payments) and let you stay out of the middle east.
If you can manage state licensure as a teacher somewhere then programs in public schools in Taiwan, or NET in Hong Kong become well paid and realistic options. http://www.edb.gov.hk/en/sch-admin/admin/about-sch-staff/net-scheme/remuneration-package.html .
For those with licensure, graduate level qualifications and 2 years in a classroom the remuneration package (salary and benefits) is in the range of US$45-60k per year.
There IS life outside of the US and middle east.
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strovo123
Joined: 07 Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:14 am Post subject: |
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| Thank you both for your feedback. I forgot to add that I am 25 years old, and not as young as my lack of experience may look. My background is in print/magazine/online journalism, and I did a 2 year stint in TV/film production. I realize I have a dearth of ESL work, and extremely minimal EFL work. My undergrad was a state school in Florida for what it's worth. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:50 am Post subject: |
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| strovo123 wrote: |
| I forgot to add that I am 25 years old, and not as young as my lack of experience may look. |
and makes you about 15-25 years younger than most uni lecturers in this field and barely older than the students you want to work with.
| strovo123 wrote: |
| My goal is to teach adults or in universities because they (can often be) more peaceful and academically-serious environments. I am also thinking of one day going back for a PhD in second-language acquisition, but I am also thinking of English for Specific Purposes gigs. |
Reality check time -
In most places that a green as grass American can find work (everywhere outside of western Europe) the bulk (80%) of the jobs in EFL are working with kids (K-12).
Your youth works with you for finding EFL work when looking at K-12 ages. Everyone wants a shiny, new, fresh faced, young teacher to work with their kids.
Your youth works against you for work as a lecturer or teacher to adults (the rest of the world is NOT like the states).
The bulk of uni/adult positions (in east Asia as an example) wouldn't even get to your academic credentials before you application gets tossed - they see your age on your passport page and your application hits the bin.
Your lack of experience works against you in almost all areas other than entry level work with kids.
You may have the paper credential but it only puts you up one rung on the ladder and a LONG way from the top (or even the middle).
- to use the Korean example, you go from level 3 (bottom rung) to level 2 (the current minimum to get hired). https://www.epik.go.kr/contents.do?contentsNo=49&menuNo=278 because of your MA.
It's that experience thing that gets you beyond the entry level and you don't have it.
And some final notes:
I hold a MATESOL, a M.Ed, a PhD AND have 16 years in the classroom.
I am the kind of guy you are competing with for those coveted "uni" jobs and there are lots of us out here in universities all around the globe. (after 2008 there are almost as many experienced American teachers abroad as there are in the states).
Most uni jobs (at least those you would want to put on your resume when you are done) as a lecturer require, in addition to graduate level qualifications, at least 2 years of experience in a classroom before you even get to the interview stage.
If you are lucky you may find some jobs in language centers (Inlingua, Berlitz, YBM, Pagoda, etc) that will take you on and let you teach adults but the pay won't be great (those loans won't be disappearing any time soon) and you can expect some pretty ugly split shifts to go with (you work when "adults" are not working and can come to class) it until you are a "proven entity" in retaining clients and start getting "corporate work".
Good luck to you.
Apply for your dream job but don't be burning any bridges behind you.
You might have to bite the bullet and take what pays (get rid of those loans) until you have what it takes to move into that "dream job".
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naturegirl321
Joined: 04 May 2003
Posts: 9041
Location: home sweet home
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| I'm in Korea. Can't talk about it here but you can PM me. I started teaching at a uni in South America a couple days after I turned 22 but times have changed since then. What's best for some people might be bad for others. What are you looking for exactly? Asia is a good place to start. |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 9:28 am Post subject: Re: Best countries with an MA in Applied Linguistics/TESOL? |
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| strovo123 wrote: |
| Middle Eastern countries seem to be the best place to go with an M.A. in applied linguistics (economically speaking). However, like many others, the Middle East is not my ideal destination. |
Why? I've spent a few years in a Middle Eastern country, and, honestly, it's the most comfortable lifestyle I've ever had. I wouldn't write off the entire ME if I were you.
| Quote: |
| Mostly, I am looking to pay down loans, and eventually return to work in the United States working in universities/other areas with adults. Way down the line I may go for a PhD in second-language acquisition. |
If you want to work at a university-based IEP in the US, your experience abroad should be at a university, preferably teaching EAP. I've known a large number of IEP teachers who were previously at universities in Japan, so that might be a place to look. Salaries are pretty good there (roughly between $45,000-$70,000/year). The majority of university positions for foreign teachers are fixed-term (e.g,. 2 year contract, renewable once), so it is hard to stay there long term, but it might work just to get a few years of experience. If you don't already have lots of teaching experience, teaching for a few years after the MA and before the PhD is a good idea.
| Quote: |
| I forgot to add that I am 25 years old, and not as young as my lack of experience may look. My background is in print/magazine/online journalism, and I did a 2 year stint in TV/film production. I realize I have a dearth of ESL work, and extremely minimal EFL work. My undergrad was a state school in Florida for what it's worth. |
25 is still quite young. Some employers might not see 25 as much different from 22. Most places won't care much about your "2 year stint in TV/film production" unless you can sell it as a part of your teaching (e.g., a friend of mine does a lot of video production in his EFL classes).
The question about your undergrad was about the field of study, not the location of the university. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 10:41 am Post subject: Re: Best countries with an MA in Applied Linguistics/TESOL? |
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| rtm wrote: |
| strovo123 wrote: |
| Middle Eastern countries seem to be the best place to go with an M.A. in applied linguistics (economically speaking). However, like many others, the Middle East is not my ideal destination. |
Why? I've spent a few years in a Middle Eastern country, and, honestly, it's the most comfortable lifestyle I've ever had. I wouldn't write off the entire ME if I were you. |
Ditto that. And I'm a single female who navigated Saudi Arabia plus two other Mid East countries without any major hitches. Plus, my interest in the region has nothing to do with making big bucks. Saudi Arabia, in particular, requires one to have realistic (low) expectations, patience, flexibility, and a healthy sense of humor. It's not as terrible or scary as others make it out to be, but I do understand it's not everyone's cup of tea.
That said, if you get at least three years of tertiary teaching experience (in Asia) under your belt, you'd be in a better spot to apply for the desirable university jobs in Saudi Arabia, Qatar, or the expat-friendly UAE. |
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damn_my_eyes
Joined: 13 Jul 2013
Posts: 225
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Just a bug bear of mine.
Why do people insist on saying ESL teachers should get their experience in Asia first?
As far as my experience in Asia goes I can say that the lifestyle is great but the teaching experience is terrible. And I'm sure I'm not alone here. All the majority of schools seem to want is 23 year old good looking edutainers.
Of course there are exceptions, but this attitude seems to be the norm. A lot of schools haven't heard of a CELTA and don't care how effective you are in the classroom (aside from your clown routine), their only concern is how marketable you are to their students and parents. |
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suphanburi
Joined: 20 Mar 2014
Posts: 916
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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| damn_my_eyes wrote: |
Just a bug bear of mine.
Why do people insist on saying ESL teachers should get their experience in Asia first?
As far as my experience in Asia goes I can say that the lifestyle is great but the teaching experience is terrible. And I'm sure I'm not alone here. All the majority of schools seem to want is 23 year old good looking edutainers.
Of course there are exceptions, but this attitude seems to be the norm. A lot of schools haven't heard of a CELTA and don't care how effective you are in the classroom (aside from your clown routine), their only concern is how marketable you are to their students and parents. |
Not, "ESL teachers should get their experience in Asia first"
but
a) ESL teachers need experience to get beyond the entry level
and
b) Asia is the easiest market to get into for inexperienced EFL teachers
and
c) Asia often pays the best for entry level workers (depending on the country you go to work in: US$20-30k per year (plus benefits like housing, airfare, medical, pension, severance, etc).
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| damn_my_eyes wrote: |
| Why do people insist on saying ESL teachers should get their experience in Asia first? |
I think it's because some countries in Asia offer a good combination of low barriers to entrance and high salary. in many other places in the world, high salaries require higher qualifications, or places with a lower entry barrier barely pay enough to live.
| Quote: |
| As far as my experience in Asia goes I can say that the lifestyle is great but the teaching experience is terrible. And I'm sure I'm not alone here. All the majority of schools seem to want is 23 year old good looking edutainers. |
I don't doubt that that was your experience, but I can say that that was definitely not my experience in Japan.
What bugs me is when people recommend getting experience in "Asia", assuming that all of Asia is pretty much the same. Just like the OP here shouldn't think of all of the Middle East as being the same, there is also a lot of variation between different countries in Asia. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| rtm wrote: |
| What bugs me is when people recommend getting experience in "Asia", assuming that all of Asia is pretty much the same. Just like the OP here shouldn't think of all of the Middle East as being the same, there is also a lot of variation between different countries in Asia. |
I usually mention Asia solely to refer to the region. Job seekers can then do their own research as to which country most interests them. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:02 pm Post subject: Re: Best countries with an MA in Applied Linguistics/TESOL? |
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| strovo123 wrote: |
| I am still trying to decide on a language: mulling over taking Chinese or Korean. |
Be aware there's no language requirement to teach EFL:
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strovo123
Joined: 07 Jun 2014
Posts: 3
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| Posted: Thu Jun 12, 2014 8:30 pm Post subject: Re: Best countries with an MA in Applied Linguistics/TESOL? |
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| rtm wrote: |
Why? I've spent a few years in a Middle Eastern country, and, honestly, it's the most comfortable lifestyle I've ever had. I wouldn't write off the entire ME if I were you.
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I did not mean to come off that I was against the Middle East, or that I thought all the countries were alike. I am just not as interested in working there (right now) as in other places. Perhaps as I learn more about the countries in the area that will change.  Also, my undergrad was in mass communications/ print journalism.
| nomad soul wrote: |
Be aware there's no language requirement to teach EFL:
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Yes, I saw this page previously. Thank you. My main interest in taking a language would be to better understand students' errors (contrastive analysis), and to get another window into their culture through the language. Plus, it's free with my graduate position.
| suphanburi wrote: |
Good luck to you. |
Thank you! |
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Matt_22
Joined: 26 Feb 2006
Posts: 193
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| Posted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 12:34 pm Post subject: |
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The ME is a terrible idea for a guy with no classroom experience. You really wanna feed him to the wolves right off the bat?
Since adult/Uni work is what you're interested in, I'd suggest starting out in some Podunk Chinese university - just so that you can actually get a relevant position and something on your resume. Bounce up the Uni chain a bit and perhaps into Korea. Maybe a spot like DLI down the line, if you want to get back into the US.
Are your debts federal student loans? If so, working for a US government institution (peace corps or state dept elo) could offer you public service loan forgiveness in 10 years, and a heck of a lot of benefits for a future career in the federal service. |
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