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jackflash
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 14
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 Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 1:30 pm Post subject: Talking shop -- University-level |
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I'm beginning to prepare for the upcoming semester. It'll be my first university job and I don't have much experience with large classes. Some classes near 60 students, according to a teacher who works at my school. That's a bit intimidating, so I want to make sure I'm prepared.
I don't know if there is a curriculum or book I have to follow, but I wanted to get an idea of what other teachers do. Are there any books you'd recommend? How much time should I cover M/P/F in a 45 minute Oral English class? hah, please tell me my CELTA will pay off. What are good games at that level? I can usually rely on Taboo or Scategories with older learners. That's manageable with 20 students, but I can't see it working well with 60 students.
Any professors out there that can shed some light? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 3:17 pm Post subject: |
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Forget games. If they're English majors, they'll need something engaging and challenging.
It'll be difficult to work with 60 students, but you can create situational dialog scenarios for 2-4 students in which they must solve some sort of common problem. Humorous situations work best.
You can cover a LOT of ground if they are given little to no time to prepare by having the 3-4 best speakers appear before the class and engage in the dialog.
One of my favorites is this scenario: mother and father stand before their daughter and her boyfriend. The boyfriend is described as being heavily tattooed with long hair. He's also a rock and roll musician. The daughter asks the parents to marry the guy. Each presents his reasons for/against the marriage. You can quickly rotate students out of roles as they run out of things to say.
Unless the "game" is challenging, you'll lose them fast. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| One of my favorites is this scenario: mother and father stand before their daughter and her boyfriend. The boyfriend is described as being heavily tattooed with long hair. He's also a rock and roll musician. The daughter asks the parents to marry the guy. Each presents his reasons for/against the marriage. You can quickly rotate students out of roles as they run out of things to say. |
Wow. You can do something so totally unrelated to anything academic at a university??? |
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Shroob
Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 1339
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
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| One of my favorites is this scenario: mother and father stand before their daughter and her boyfriend. The boyfriend is described as being heavily tattooed with long hair. He's also a rock and roll musician. The daughter asks the parents to marry the guy. Each presents his reasons for/against the marriage. You can quickly rotate students out of roles as they run out of things to say. |
Wow. You can do something so totally unrelated to anything academic at a university??? |
I don't mean to come off as condescending, but Chinese university students are probably 5 years behind in maturity than western counterparts. I want to emphasise that not all students are like this. There are some really mature students way above their peers in the classes I have taught. But most students will giggle if you mention your girlfriend/boyfriend, to give you an idea. They also generally lap up anything to do with love. Again these are vast generalizations.
Regarding the 'academic' nature of the class - it depends on how you present it. Most foreign teachers at unis are there solely for 'Oral English' and their mandate is 'get them talking'. Nothing more.
Additionally, we don't know the context of the lesson. I can think of a few things that would be useful in academic settings e.g. debating, expressing an opinion, politely disagreeing - all useful in seminars. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
Wow. You can do something so totally unrelated to anything academic at a university??? |
The idea is to add spontaneity to the class regimen. By the time English majors reach college, their abilities have grown well past the point of being tested on pronunciation. The ability to speak without a script requires recall and creativity. When the student joins the real world, there will be no script. They will be required to put everything together and respond to things that they couldn't prepare for.
I use similar methods when addressing idioms, metaphors, and similes.
In argumentation class, we argue for and against euthanasia, the necessity of learning a second language, as well as the convenience and wisdom of arranged marriages. The idea behind this approach is to make the students think critically, a skill that will serve them well in life. (By the way, these arguments come straight from their text books).
I start every first class with the statement that when they leave school, there will be no scripts.
I'm curious, Spiral: Why do you consider this approach "so totally unrelated to anything academic"?
Would you have your university English majors recite something out of a book then give them a comprehension and pronunciation test? How would you prepare students to respond to an unexpected question? How would you engage a class that's sick and tired of the same old s*it day after day and wants something interesting and challenging?
My classes are so totally unrelated to anything academic that Chinese teachers observe my classes to learn how I get the students to talk. I conduct my classes in the same manner that I would conduct my classes in the U.S.. |
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Sashadroogie
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Posts: 11061
Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Spiral, I too am with bated breath.... |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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I'm assuming OP (Jack) doesn't yet know what the majors of his students will be. If he does, his school is a helluva lot more organised than any I've worked for!
Certainly, English majors will need more engaging stuff than say tourism or hospitality students but at the end of the day leave the academics to the Chinese teachers and as Shroob says get them talking by whatever means. 60-student classes are not likely to be English majors as in my experience these tend to be 30 to 40-student groupings. Some kind of elitism going on here I suppose.
Unless your classes are all electives, you will need to grade and for this reason you need some standardised content in which you can identify the performance of individuals and track progress. I use the 1st 45 mins for that and do something more active in the 2nd 45. Usually I use the set text, although some of the Chinese-authored ones are pretty dire. That said the dialogues in Western texts are far too short to get any sense of how a student is performing.
The students soon get the idea that putting in the effort in the first part gets them a ‘fun’ activity later.
This website has downloadable resources for classes around 60 students. They are priced around $10.
http://www.eslteachersresources.com/
I’ve been using the same cocktail party resource for 3 years which must be upward of 2000 students have used it. Mind you it’s been reprinted a few times. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Wed Jul 09, 2014 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I'm curious, Spiral: Why do you consider this approach "so totally unrelated to anything academic"?
Would you have your university English majors recite something out of a book then give them a comprehension and pronunciation test? How would you prepare students to respond to an unexpected question? How would you engage a class that's sick and tired of the same old s*it day after day and wants something interesting and challenging? |
Actually, I would have expected that argumentation in your situation would just be more focused on academic topics than marriage, opinions about tattoos, and etc - that's why I expressed surprise and interest.
Mine aren't comparable - it's entirely apples/oranges.
Firstly, ours have CEF B2 English at minimum. Up to native English speakers. This is common in university level academic writing and presentation skills in western-style universities across Europe.
Students who have weaker English than this are often required to arrange and pay for their own lessons. Ours most definitely don't need scripts, from first year university onwards.
Next, European students don't generally need to be taught critical thinking skills, though we may address ways to express their ideas in professional/academic language. Critical thinking is very much a part of the culture in my context. Nor are they reticent to speak 
At our lower levels, we use genuine or researched negotiation, usually in teams. They do academic, researched presentations, and practice paraphrasing and citation (framing) skills in both writing and speaking. We work a little on mistakes common to speakers of their first languages in English, to avoid professors' pet peeves in their English texts, and focus on the language of their academic fields as well. Genre analysis is also prevalent, as students are required to produce stuff that fits into the field.
Also, at every university where I have worked, English is the sole medium of instruction across all faculties and all courses, so it's probably much easier to focus on actual academic topics. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 1:08 am Post subject: |
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Spiral,
This is the China board. If you'd like to discuss teaching in China, I'd be happy to reply to you. You make too many poor assumptions for me to address.
Happy Every Day  |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:07 am Post subject: |
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| This is the China board. If you'd like to discuss teaching in China, I'd be happy to reply to you. You make too many poor assumptions for me to address. |
Dear Bud:
As I said above, the only assumption I made regarding teaching at a university in China is that people would generally focus on academic topics rather than things like marriage choice and tattoos.
As I said, I am extremely aware that my teaching context is totally different from yours. I only tried to describe my situation a little because you asked earlier:
| Quote: |
I'm curious, Spiral: Why do you consider this approach "so totally unrelated to anything academic"?
Would you have your university English majors recite something out of a book then give them a comprehension and pronunciation test? How would you prepare students to respond to an unexpected question? How would you engage a class that's sick and tired of the same old s*it day after day and wants something interesting and challenging? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
| Quote: |
I'm curious, Spiral: Why do you consider this approach "so totally unrelated to anything academic"?
Would you have your university English majors recite something out of a book then give them a comprehension and pronunciation test? How would you prepare students to respond to an unexpected question? How would you engage a class that's sick and tired of the same old s*it day after day and wants something interesting and challenging? |
Actually, I would have expected that argumentation in your situation would just be more focused on academic topics than marriage, opinions about tattoos, and etc - that's why I expressed surprise and interest.
Mine aren't comparable - it's entirely apples/oranges.
Firstly, ours have CEF B2 English at minimum. Up to native English speakers. This is common in university level academic writing and presentation skills in western-style universities across Europe.
Students who have weaker English than this are often required to arrange and pay for their own lessons. Ours most definitely don't need scripts, from first year university onwards.
Next, European students don't generally need to be taught critical thinking skills, though we may address ways to express their ideas in professional/academic language. Critical thinking is very much a part of the culture in my context. Nor are they reticent to speak
At our lower levels, we use genuine or researched negotiation, usually in teams. They do academic, researched presentations, and practice paraphrasing and citation (framing) skills in both writing and speaking. We work a little on mistakes common to speakers of their first languages in English, to avoid professors' pet peeves in their English texts, and focus on the language of their academic fields as well. Genre analysis is also prevalent, as students are required to produce stuff that fits into the field.
Also, at every university where I have worked, English is the sole medium of instruction across all faculties and all courses, so it's probably much easier to focus on actual academic topics. |
I think think you would be in the minority Spiral. Most of us are in environments where the language of instruction is Chinese except for the FT-taught classes. |
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jackflash
Joined: 08 Jun 2011
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:21 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Forget games. If they're English majors, they'll need something engaging and challenging.
It'll be difficult to work with 60 students, but you can create situational dialog scenarios for 2-4 students in which they must solve some sort of common problem. Humorous situations work best.
You can cover a LOT of ground if they are given little to no time to prepare by having the 3-4 best speakers appear before the class and engage in the dialog.
One of my favorites is this scenario: mother and father stand before their daughter and her boyfriend. The boyfriend is described as being heavily tattooed with long hair. He's also a rock and roll musician. The daughter asks the parents to marry the guy. Each presents his reasons for/against the marriage. You can quickly rotate students out of roles as they run out of things to say.
Unless the "game" is challenging, you'll lose them fast. |
This is a great idea. I'm always a bit worried when introducing a game to older learners. I don't want to patronize them in any way. Role playing and dialogue exercises may be a better bet. Have you found any method the best when introducing and conducting classroom discussions/debates?
I assume I have a typical university job - Oral English, 12 classes per week. My contact has been mum on specifics. Still waiting on my invitation letter, at the moment. Any more resources or guides on how I might approach lesson-planning or classroom activities would be greatly appreciated. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:34 am Post subject: |
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| I think think you would be in the minority Spiral. Most of us are in environments where the language of instruction is Chinese except for the FT-taught classes. |
I'm not in China. My situation is quite normal in Europe and North America.
Basically, I'm just curious why a university class, regardless of the language level of the students, wouldn't focus on academic topics and relevant vocabulary as opposed to the types of things Bud has mentioned.
A few years back, I worked with a program for Chinese university students in North America, and they struggled quite seriously with the academic demands of the programs.
Wouldn't it be more productive for them to be focused more explicitly on academic genres and vocabulary while at university in China? The answer may legitimately be 'no' - that's my interest. Is there a rationale for these kinds of role plays that I don't 'get' that would supersede teaching in a more academic tone overall? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 2:49 am Post subject: |
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That would require Chinese universities to recruit more and better qualified FTs. I see no impetus in that direction in the 10 years I've been involved.
I note that English is the language of instruction for the medical degree at Dalian (China) Medical U, so where there's an international student body on offer the Chinese go for it.
MBA study in English is available at many continental Europe schools.
International schools in China teach in English, for expats but the local Chinese get at least some of their lessons in Chinese. |
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doogsville
Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 924
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 3:58 am Post subject: |
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| spiral78 wrote: |
I'm not in China. My situation is quite normal in Europe and North America.
Basically, I'm just curious why a university class, regardless of the language level of the students, wouldn't focus on academic topics and relevant vocabulary as opposed to the types of things Bud has mentioned. |
Perhaps because to understand and absorb those topics in English, the students would need a level of English ability they have yet to attain. The main purpose of FT's in China is to facilitate the achievement of that standard, not to teach academic subjects in students second, or even third language. I'm sure very few North American or European universities teach their students in languages other than the national first language. I know some European universities offer individual courses in English, but that's in order to attract foreign students who pay higher fees. Most university classes in China do focus on academic topics, but they do so in Chinese. As you pointed out yourself,
| Quote: |
| A few years back, I worked with a program for Chinese university students in North America, and they struggled quite seriously with the academic demands of the programs. |
I would hazard a guess that it was not the academic side of it that was the difficulty for them, but rather the language of instruction.
As a previous poster has already pointed out, this is the China jobs board, specifically for the discussion of China related job and teaching topics. Your posts are contributing nothing to either topic. |
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