Job Discussion Forums

[ryanlogic]

Peace be upon all of you,

I'm currently finishing up my degrees in the US.

I will graduate this summer with a bachelors degree in sociology and a bachelors degree in international relations.

I'm heavily considering pursuing teaching English overseas for a few years while figuring out what I want to do with my life... I like the idea of traveling and learning Arabic.... So Saudi Arabia and the surrounding gulf area is I primary interest.

I am american born Caucasian, and I converted to Islam in highschool so I'm not as worried about the strict religious laws as most seem to be. I'm married and my wife already wears a headscarf willingly so that isn't an issue.

That being said, we are very much "American Muslims" so I am sure there will be culture shock in spite of common religious identity.

I am wondering how I can make myself more employable because it doesn't seem like I will qualify for teaching positions right out of school.

I would like to work in either Jeddah, or the two holy cities... But I suppose Riyadh would be closer to Makkah than the United States.

On other websites, people have recommended investing in a CELTA course and possibly teaching in China or something or 2 years to gain experience.

It's possible that I could obtain a minor in education because I work at my university and after graduation I have access to free classes if I work full time until something better comes along.

All of those options present challenges so I'm just trying to gain some insight as to which avenues I should pursue.

Any and all relevant advice will be helpful.

[ryanlogic]

If I could find a decent job teaching English with just a CELTA cert that would be amazing.

[nomad soul]

If you look at the TEFL job ads for the Kingdom, you'll find a BA + valid TEFL cert + a few years of TEFL experience are the minimum qualifications for work via a Saudi contracting company. So no, you wouldn't be employable right out of university, and yes, you should seriously consider that advice about heading to Asia (preferably to Korea) for those first few years of teaching experience.

[fledex]

A couple of the really lousy contract companies have employed people with a CELTA or TEFL cert and a BA right out of college. Don't work for them.

Getting a CELTA or TEFL after the BA is a good idea. Going to China for a couple years to get experience would be an even better bet. I found welcoming Muslim communities in China. In two years you'd get a more legit job in Saudi this way.

I don't know your age for sure, but if you're just graduating from college you may be in your early 20s. The students in Saudi seem to get along OK with young teachers, but administrators tend to be skeptical of teachers that are about the same age as the students.

[ryanlogic]

[veiledsentiments]

[ryanlogic]

[fledex]

Well, given your age and what you want to do, working for one of the lousy contractors that would hire you (if you get a CELTA) for a couple years, would give you some pocket change while paying your loans back. They are horrible people to work for, though. Nothing in your life will be certain while working with them, including pay, vacations, and postings. Age won't be an issue for you. For these companies, qualifications also seem to hardly be an issue, so I think getting hired is a really possibility if you have some English teaching credential (like a one month CELTA course).

[veiledsentiments]

But I have seen these horrible jobs force so many young Muslims to leave Saudi very disillusioned...

...which is why I suggested Morocco above when ryanlogic and I were synchronized posting. (the catch being the education loans)

VS

[ryanlogic]

[zaazia]

Assalamu alaikum Ryan

My advice to you is to do the CELTA and apply for the jobs you see for Saudi Arabia.

It is true that the better employers require more experience, but it is still possible to get a job with little or no experience with a degree and the CELTA.

I would also say that if you see a job requiring experience, still apply and see what happens. There is no harm in trying.

[nomad soul]

[ryanlogic]

Ok,

For the record, I've received several private messages telling me to go for it in Saudi. I appreciate the encouragement. And I appreciate the honest and informed warnings from everyone else. I happen to think it rather unwise to merely follow any single persons advice. I'm going to drag this one out as long as you guys are willing to tolerate I have a tendency to break things down and work on them until they are exhausted completely. I will likely spend quite a bit of time trying to exhaust every possible topic in regards to my situation.

What we have so far:

Minor in education=not worth much if anything
CELTA=Good
2+ years experience= Good
Masters degree= Better

Minor in education is like plan F in my book. Basically if I get stuck stateside and can't find a better job I can always use the free credit hours from my job to get the minor. At that point I could teach in private Islamic schools here in the United States to get some teaching experience but the salary would be almost unlivable.

CELTA is going to be tough enough to earn because I don't live in an area that offers it, and it's relatively expensive. I know that I have to do it to get where I want, so it's a sacrifice I'm going to have to figure out how to make.

I can't afford a masters program until I pay down my loans significantly. And I want to teach for a while before I decide that's that is what I really want to pursue. I'm far too interested in many other things to simply jump into a decision like that. Although, I can imagine myself liking the profession and working my way up the chain if I was given the financial means to do so.

the only two things I can reasonably achieve short term is a CELTA certification, and find a job that will be good for experience that will accommodate my wife. I would not sign any contract or take any job that did not make it reasonably easy to bring her along. I'd rather work in a sweatshop for peanuts than not be able to spend time with her, she is my best friend.

My struggle to earn the CELTA cert is a topic for another thread, we can just assume I will get it inshaAllah.

So how much more sketchy is a low paying job in Saudi vs a low paying job in China or other places in Asia? If jobs can be had in both places, then what makes one place favorable over the other?

I mean, I hear about sketchy employment practices on teaching forums for a number of countries... How much better would it be working for peanuts in Asia for experience vs. working in Saudi for cashews? Still earning nuts and dealing with poor packaging either way.

I assume it must be easy it to discourage people from taking less than ideal opportunities when one has already worked their way to the top.

What I am trying to accurately determine is whether or not the social benefits(from my perspective) of living in Saudi are worth the risks and inconveniences associated with my less than ideal qualifications.

What are the main benefits to teaching elsewhere for the experience needed to land acceptable jobs? I mean, are there places that would fly me out and sponsor my wife without much hassle? Places that are less corrupt and likely to treat us well in and out of the work place?

If those places do exist, I would love to hear about them.

But then I have to asses how those places would be for me and my wife. We aren't super strict fundamental types however we aren't about to give up our identity just to live in another place.

I would need to be able to pray at work.
I would need to be able to attend the mosque on friday.
Access to halal meat... Or a VERY good selection of vegetarian cuisine.
My wife needs to be free to dress however she wants (happens to cover with long garnets and a scarf)

If I can find a place better than Saudi in regards to salary, benefits, and accommodation with employers that appreciate my degrees and certification in spite of lack of experience.... Then such and option would make sense over Saudi for an entry level job

Living close to the holy cities and having direct access to the Arabic language is a HUGE counterweight that may not make sense to non-Muslims or people who are not very spiritual. Access to decent food without worrying about pork and slaughtering practices is a benefit in its own right. Cultural stimulation, like the call to prayer and religious holidays are something we just don't get to experience living in America. I have never been able to feel normal about being a muslim in my entire life as one. the convenience of being able to wash for prayer and pray in public without being treated like an alien from some unknown sector of a distant galaxy is something a lot of people may simply not understand.

What constitutes "roughing it" for me may be totally different that what it is for someone else. I would not be happy working anywhere that alienated me or my family from our spirituality.

[lcanupp1964]

I agree with nomad soul. Any kind of education is always a good thing, but having a minor in education will not help a person get a better teaching position. It should help in the classroom, but will have little weight elsewhere, including on a CV.

Based on my experience, you should be able to get a position with places like Wall Street School of English in Jeddah (if they are hiring), but the pay will be low - around 10,000sr a month. If you did three years at one of those places, you should be able to get a better job after you finish working there. Wall Street is run like a "cram school" one would find in South Korea. It's 99% a business and 1% a school.

[MuscatGary]

"My wife needs to be free to dress however she wants (happens to cover with long garnets and a scarf)"

Well that's NOT a freedom that women have in Saudi. Or in France for that matter but in reverse!