Job Discussion Forums

[johnslat]

While the focus of this article is on why (other) "Europeans (are) 'Bad English Shaming' Their Politicians," it also contains some interesting information about this:

"This map shows just how far moderate English fluency has spread in Europe."

http://jakubmarian.com/map-of-the-percentage-of-people-speaking-english-in-the-eu-by-country/

"English has become the lingua franca of Europe. And politicians who can't speak it well are getting roundly mocked by their own citizens.

In countries where most people speak a Germanic language, at least 50 percent of the population can hold a conversation in English, as they can also in Cyprus, Estonia, Finland, Malta, Greece, and Slovenia (and probably in other unlisted countries too). There’s still no shame in continental Europe attached to failing to understand broad British or North American regional accents, but many continental Europeans’ English skills are getting really good. So good, for example, that Scandinavian comedians can now make fun of British accents and count on a fully comprehending audience.

Once the number of English speakers tips over 50 percent, it seems people just get more demanding of each other. It’s one thing for a lazy Brit or American to complain about no one speaking English in Paris (though this happens less and less), but it’s quite another for a Dutch person to complain of the same thing—they’re already making an effort themselves. Like a bachelor’s degree and a clean criminal record, decent English is becoming one of those basic things you need to forge a career in Europe, political or not.

This may be good for native English speakers, at least given their relative reluctance to learn another tongue, but I feel for my European neighbors. If anything could move me to sympathize with continental Europe’s political elite, it’s the thought of someone waiting to be filmed under blazing lights, frantically trying to remember the rules of the past progressive tense."

http://www.citylab.com/politics/2014/07/why-are-europeans-bad-english-shaming-their-politicians/374922/

Regards,
John

[angeles]

Nice post.

[quote]

If anything could move me to sympathize with continental Europe’s political elite, it’s the thought of someone waiting to be filmed under blazing lights, frantically trying to remember the rules of the past progressive tense."

[/quote]

But I reckon that any such trauma will be short-lived as they quickly return to being Europe's political elite and thus not really caring very much because of the free lunches.

[The Fifth Column]

Great find & share!

[spiral78]

Also interesting from the standpoint of what it says about the EFL market in Europe.

Maybe this will help enlighten a few starry-eyed teachers expecting to easily find work in Europe.....and will help support the argument we long-timers make that qualifications are really necessary on this job market!

[Janiny]

The OP reminds me of a funny story. A few years back some Indonesian officials had a televised meeting with the international press for some reason - unimportant now. One of the last was a man known as SBY who kind of stumbled along with passable English and was clearly not so comfortable speaking the language. Next came a rather suave, younger politician who spoke English wonderfully well and with ease, confidence and a charming smile. He made speaking to the international press look so easy that SBY practically pushed him aside and returned to field more questions. I could see that he understood the question well enough, but was at a loss as to just how to answer in proper English. So he replied in a terse, broken way and concluded with, 'No more questions.'

My first reaction was to bust out laughing at SBY. He had clearly bitten off more than he could chew, and had made a fool of himself on an international broadcast. However, it was also somewhat endearing and admirable. The suave politician had clearly been educated abroad, while SBY was self-taught in English (as I happened to know). Speaking English for the younger (bourgeois) politician was no real effort. For SBY (a man of the people) it was daring and bold even if it wasn't quite successful.

Within a year the suave man disappeared from the political scene, more or less, while SBY (Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono) went on to become the next president. Whether he was a good president or not - it is not my place to say, but throughout his rule I always remembered that incident and couldn't help liking the man more for not being the best student of English, but brave enough to stand up before the whole world and give it a try.

To return to the OP - To be fair we should realize that not everyone is good at learning a new language. It is possible to be a fine and competent politician, I think, but just not very good at English.

n.b. I don't mean Dubya Bush who was certainly not a fine and competent politician and has no excuse for not mastering his own native language.

[teacheratlarge]

[Sashadroogie]

Very sorry for your loss.

As Spiral was saying, quite clearly, EFL in Europe broadly is different to EFL in Japan, say. Here learners are expected to use the language on a daily basis. They have real needs, and some learners are fairly powerful people. This means that they are not in the slightest bit impressed with dancing monkey routines so beloved in Asia, have little interest in learning about the American or British way of life, and usually have vastly more explicit linguistic knowledge than backbacker Chad or Brad.

They have clear, needs, strong instrumental motivation, and don't waste time with incompetent teachers. No pedestals for blonde teachers here.

That, and there is a very sizable pool of local teachers too. You were right about that. And again, they can often run rings around the unfortunates TEFLers in China or Korea etc who pose themselves as university professors.

It's a tough environment. Fit only for the strong. Quite merciless, really. Darwinian, almost. Hence the evolution of radically more skillful teachers...

[spiral78]

What I thought I'd said clearly is that job seekers with experience in Asia often imagine that Europe will provide the same easy conditions; high demand for teachers, tolerance of low/no qualifications.

[teacheratlarge]

Sorry, none of that was mentioned in this thread. Also both sasha and yourself are forgetting the large number of business people in Japan who do have specific English language needs (presentation skills, business meetings, etc.).

Sasha, as mentioned before, the average English level in Russia is lower than Japan, so you don't want to include yourself. In addition, Russia has lower requirements for obtaining a work visa.

Finally, I think the visa/ work permit issues are probably the bigger problems/issues for people moving from teaching in Asia in general to Europe; not teaching skills per se. I have seen plenty of people transitioning in both directions without many issues, if any at all.

[Sashadroogie]

Now, now, Gaijinalways. I never said Russans have lower English abilities than Japanese - you said that ages ago, cited some spurious statistics to bolster your claims. That and your vast experience in Russian transit lounges dealing with ever-so-helpful airport staff.

The proof of the pudding is in the taste, GA. How many Japanese teachers of English are there who have Deltas and MAs and teach English abroad? Or Chinese or Koreans? Whatever number, it is dwarfed by the numbers of Europeans.

As for visa issues, if this is your line of defence, it is inconsistent and flimsy. Yes, Russia has an easier entry barrier than some other countries. Yet, the hordes of poorly-qualified 'oral English teachers' with experience from the East who manage to get work here never last long. The issue is solely one of teaching skills - i.e. their near total lack of them. What might pass muster for students who have no hope of learning anything doesn't impress European students one whit.

Large numbers of businessmen in Japan with specific needs, pah! Pity they never seem to manage to realize them. But is it shame on them? Or shame on their teachers?