Job Discussion Forums

[bobdaun]

Anyone who has been on Dave's for a while will know that over the years the question of foreign teachers' salaries has been debated again and again.

We often seem to end up with very polarized arguments along the lines of :

A) Foreign teachers are exploited and poverty stricken and anyone who comes here saying any different is just a stooge for recruiters.

B) I make 20,000 a month at my school, and I wouldn't even get out of bed for less than 500 an hour for privates, and anyone who works for less than this is a sucker.

I think it might be helpful to ask some specific questions and get some definite answers, rather than just bandying around these kinds of generalities.

I know that most teachers don't come to China with the specific goal of making a lot of money - the main attraction is the possibility to enjoy a relatively comfortable lifestyle with relatively little work.

On the other hand, it is theoretically possible to make and save quite a lot of money. This is copied and pasted from a post I made on another thread:



Imagine:

Basic uni job, 6000 rmb per month, plus flights, plus the odd bonus, say 70,000 rmb per year.

10 hours of private classes per week, 150 rmb per hour: allowing for holidays, missed classes etc., say 50,000 rmb per year.

If you are reasonably qualified and experienced you can do IELTS examining on the weekends, 3000 rmb per weekend, say 20 times per year: 60,000 rmb per year.

Total income: 180,000 rmb per year.

Free apartment from the uni.

Living modestly but not like a monk, spending say 3000 rmb per month (which is roughly what I do), throw in a little travel, total expenditure say 50,000 rmb per year.

Total saving 130,000 rmb per year, i.e. just over $20,000 at current exchange rates.

Sure, being that busy and spending that little isn't going to be a party, but if you are well prepared it is perfectly possible to come to China, work hard for 2 or 3 years, get your student debts paid off and even have a little saved up to go back home with.

Say you came here after graduating, with a CELTA and a couple of years teaching experience, (which would allow you to get into IELTS examining).

Say you had student debts of $50,000.

Say you worked like this for 5 years (saving a total of $100,000), and then went back home.

How many 29 year olds back home are without any student debt, credit card debt, whatever, plus with $50,000 in cash to put down for a house?

OK, so this is perhaps an extreme example of what is possible, but the point is that it actually is possible, if you are prepared to put in the effort.



I would love to hear from anybody who has actually managed to make and save s significant amount of money while teaching in China.

How did you do it?

How long did it take?

Was that your game plan when you came to China?

What sort of lifestyle did you manage to have while you were doing it?



To start the ball rolling:

I work a basic uni job (12 teaching hours this semester) in addition to which I do some extra work for the uni, teaching a few content classes, doing course design, helping at the international cooperation office, no heavy lifting, for a total post-tax income (including flights and bonuses) of around 100,000 a year.

I live well, but I don't go out much (by choice, quite a quiet person). I cook a lot at home, but go out for a pizza or other foreign food occasionally (a couple of times a week). I buy a lot of chocolate, cheese, coffee, olive oil etc, my home cooking is about half Chinese, half western. Total spends per month, about 3000. I do A LOT of international travel in the holidays, this is where most of my money goes, at least 1 trip per year to the US and one to Europe.

I originally came to China for fun, not thinking about making a lot of money, but ended up staying, and as I got more experience I found I was able to earn more for less.

I've managed to save around $20,000 in the last 4 years and currently have no debts, which I guess would put me somewhere in the middle of any putative poll results.


Please, anybody else willing to share............

And please bear in mind that the topic is about SAVING money in China, the idea is not to give a forum to those who want to brag and strut about how much they earn and manage to pimp away on fancy foreign restaurants, imported beer at expat bars, hats, racing pigeons, embroidered cushion covers, or whatever else pimps might blow money on (I have limited experience in this field).

[bobdaun]

I originally asked these questions on another thread, before deciding that they would be best on a thread of their own.

Here is a reply from the other thread:

[sui jin]

I've managed to save around $20,000 in the last 4 years and currently have no debts

Not sure I understand this : you mean $20,000 in the bank after the US/European trips , or to pay for these trips? To my mind 'savings' means money for a rainy day that you don't need to touch for daily life.

I have never saved any money , because the end-of-year balance gets blown just by spending two or three weeks in England. But then , I never work very hard here (doing extra classes), so never accumulate much in the bank.

[bobdaun]

The $20,000 is actual savings, cash in the bank, after daily expenses and everything else is paid for.

100,000 rmb per year
3000 rmb per month expenses = +- 40,000rmb per year.
10,000 per trip for a ticket + 5000 for expenses = 30,000rmb

Total = 70,000 rmb per year spent, 30,000rmb banked (more or less).

[PBirm123]

Great thread.

I arrived in Dalian, China in late July. I work for a training center, teach eighteen 50-minute classes per week, plan classes in only 4 office hours, and receive 10,000 RMB per month after tax(8,500 salary and 1,500 rent stipend).

Since I live Downtown and have to use the whole stipend on rent, I make about:

102,000 per year from training center job
28,800 per year from privates(I teach privates at 150 RMB for 4 hours per week)
7,000 contract completion bonus

My expenses are about 3,000 RMB, and that includes going out twice per week and spending a couple hundred RMB each time.

So I make 137,000 RMB per year for only 30 hours of work per week, and spend 36,000 of that. I'm able to save 101,000 RMB or ~$16,500.

My 24 year old friends back home that were lucky enough to be gainfully employed in their respective fields(mostly accounting, engineering & computer science majors) may make $60,000 or so a year, $45,000 a year after tax, and they sure as hell ain't saving $17,000 of that. AND they have live to in Ohio and work 50 hour weeks.

I mean, China smells like shit and is horribly crowded, but it's still a hell of a good time and the people(especially women) are great.

[BizLiz]

The gospel truth is that China is great fun for singles who have no student loans to repay. For anyone else looking for a teaching career, or has a student loan to repay ,or has a wife and kids to support, China, Bolivia, and Haiti fall in the same category and there are 87 other countries that pay at least 50%-180% higher wages than China. Most people want to make and save money not just survive. And No, we are not talking about working 12 hours a day 6 days week with 2 or 3 gigs. Let's compare apples with apples - a 40 hour work week in China vs a 40 hour work week in Japan, Qatar, Kuwait, Norway, Turkey, etc. China simply does not deserve the hype all you agents and recruiters are giving it.

Here are pertinent links to review:

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.org/2012/12/cftu-minimum-wage-for-foreign-teachers.html

http://www.zimbio.com/Chongqing+China/articles/H8k1usSjnte/Low+Salaries+Foreign+Teachers+China+Almost

http://www.ChinaScamBusters.com

http://www.chinaforeignteachersunion.com/2013/06/china-foreign-teachers-suggested-hourly.html

http://www.tefl.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=5705

[Kysorb]

Double post

[Kysorb]

My first year I saved nothing,
My second year i saved $5000.
My third year i was on track to save $15-20k but I will end up spending most of it on a wedding...

Upcoming for my fourth year contract I hope to be able to save well over 20k per year. but that will depend on my negotiation skills.

I have been at the same workplace all of these years and progressed fairly high into the schools management so i work a 40 hour work week but teach only rarely if at all.

[muffintop]

Sounds like you are getting off pretty easy on the wedding.

Grats! Best wishes to you two.

[choudoufu]

[johntpartee]

I've stashed 14000 USD in the last 18 months. That includes a summer-before-last one month stint at a middle school (gross 17000 RMB) This includes airfare reimbursement and travel allowance from the university. I haven't done without, although I am careful (also don't drink). If I subtract what my plane ticket here cost and what it will cost me to get back to the other side of the world, I've netted 12000 US (and I don't make astronomical wages [less than 10000 yuan per month]). I have a standard uni position; apartment provided, stock hours, etc.

[bobdaun]

Evidently the person currently using the BizLiz I.D. doesn't actually read the posts in the thread before copying and pasting the usual array of links for the "chinaforeignteachersunion".

[Toast]

I don't save crap. At the moment I don't bother with privates. I came with some savings from several shite jobs in a higher paying, however shite country filled with shite people. Therefore I try to work as few hours as possible and my job is effectively a paying hobby. Right now, I kid you not I spend more hours of the week picking my nose than I do instructing the little darlings. Around a third of my salary covers the wife's university tuition. The rest pays for visits to Metro and Papa Johns. Or long weekend trips to other places.

In a year or two I'll maybe need to pull my head out of my ass and actually start working, but in the meantime....

[johntpartee]

It's called living life to the fullest, Toast. "Eat, drink, and be merry......"

[cloud_pleaser]

A few years ago I set myself the modest goal of having $10, 000 in savings when I was in the twilight of my 20s. If I couldn't do that then I would quit ESL as a career. Those years are encroaching and I am well on my way to exceeding that goal.
I am also on my way to getting my DELTA and Masters (at practically no cost to me because of Australia's amazing education system). Life is good and looking better