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Juice
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 66
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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 Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:37 am Post subject: Re: Proof Positive Why Chinese Job Recruiters Cannot Be Trus |
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| Juice wrote: |
| http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2010-08/27/content_11211668_2.htm |
Article is 4 years old and doesn't prove what you think it does。
"Where there is demand there is supply," he said. "Many foreigners come to China with no plan or real expertise, except being a native English speaker. Being the window dressing is perfect for them and for my clients." |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Proof positive why people trying to make money off of others should not be trusted. If you cannot get the concept of scams you will be walking into another one at some point. |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| wangdaning wrote: |
| Proof positive why people trying to make money off of others should not be trusted. If you cannot get the concept of scams you will be walking into another one at some point. |
Name one business that is not trying to make money off of people. The whole world's economy is based on capital and profit.
Employees are paid less than the value they produce for a company, customers pay more than the cost of production for goods.
Money is not the root of all evil, the love of money is. |
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JamesD
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:19 pm Post subject: Re: Proof Positive Why Chinese Job Recruiters Cannot Be Trus |
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| The_Kong wrote: |
"...."Many foreigners come to China with no plan or real expertise, except being a native English speaker...." |
Sort of says it all, doesn't it? I'm all for helping newcomers but when unqualified newbies whine about being 'cheated' while working illegally ...well...
If you want to take a chance by working on the wrong visa that's your business. It amazes me that anyone would travel halfway around the world for a job and not make the slightest effort to research visa laws. 5 minutes of surfing the net will tell you what's legal and what's not. |
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Juice
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| The_Kong wrote: |
| wangdaning wrote: |
| Proof positive why people trying to make money off of others should not be trusted. If you cannot get the concept of scams you will be walking into another one at some point. |
Name one business that is not trying to make money off of people. The whole world's economy is based on capital and profit.
Employees are paid less than the value they produce for a company, customers pay more than the cost of production for goods.
Money is not the root of all evil, the love of money is. |
Kong is right - up to a point. Businesses must make money off of customers to succeed and licensed agencies are a legitimate business. BUT when companies have to constantly change their identities and lie about visas to trick someone into signing a contract, that is no longer a legitimate business - it becomes a scam. Can we agree on this? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Why is this still a topic? This has been hashed and rehashed over and over again.
Want info? Look up CFTU on the search function.
Case closed. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2014 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Juice wrote: |
| BUT when companies have to constantly change their identities and lie about visas to trick someone into signing a contract... |
How exactly do their lies force a job seeker into signing? By making him/her sign the papers while wearing a blindfold? (No peeking at the visa regulations!) By holding grandma and her two cats hostage in the cellar until the person signs? By promising a pot o' gold at the end of China's Great Wall?  |
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Juice
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 66
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 12:21 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| Juice wrote: |
| BUT when companies have to constantly change their identities and lie about visas to trick someone into signing a contract... |
How exactly do their lies force a job seeker into signing? By making him/her sign the papers while wearing a blindfold? (No peeking at the visa regulations!) By holding grandma and her two cats hostage in the cellar until the person signs? By promising a pot o' gold at the end of China's Great Wall? |
If you read the complaints about China ESL aka Total ESL aka New Life ESL you will see that upon arriving in China the agent/recruiters try to take "temporary custody" of the teacher's original passport (allegedly to get some special stamp and certified copy). It is during this period that they get the "official" contract done since they do a bait and witch on the job that was offered while the teacher was still back home.
If anyone protests about the new contract they are suddenly informed that they came to China on a tourist visa and are not allowed to work anywhere without the "great connections" of Mother Rebecca who "will look after you". If you demand your passport back they tell you it will be delivered to your hotel in about a week or two. This is how they play.
New arrivals get worried and scared and sign the illegal contracts they use. Did you know they openly charge money for release letters and Rebecca actually admits it in a rebuttal post at the beijinger?
A user at the Beijinger name "Bannoy" totally blew the top off China ESL and then after maybe 30 people chimed in with their own China ESL experiences, the thread vanished and a big display advertisement appeared for China ESL. Coincidence? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 3:19 am Post subject: |
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| Juice wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| How exactly do their lies force a job seeker into signing? By making him/her sign the papers while wearing a blindfold? (No peeking at the visa regulations!) By holding grandma and her two cats hostage in the cellar until the person signs? By promising a pot o' gold at the end of China's Great Wall? |
If anyone protests about the new contract they are suddenly informed that they came to China on a tourist visa and are not allowed to work anywhere without the "great connections" of Mother Rebecca who "will look after you". If you demand your passport back they tell you it will be delivered to your hotel in about a week or two. This is how they play.
New arrivals get worried and scared and sign the illegal contracts they use. |
(The bolding is mine for emphasis.)
Then instead of focusing so much of your attention on disreputable recruiters allegedly using extortion tactics to get gullible teachers to sign contracts against their will, why not highlight why it's key to get the proper work visa? That is, throughout this forum, you continue to highlight the actions of scammers but not about how job seekers can avoid these issues altogether from the get-go. Otherwise, you continue to be a loud member of that off-key chorus of complainers on all those sites you keep referring others to. Seriously, most people are interested in doing things correctly from the start than they are in having to deal with ensuing problems later. |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| Juice wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Juice wrote: |
| BUT when companies have to constantly change their identities and lie about visas to trick someone into signing a contract... |
How exactly do their lies force a job seeker into signing? By making him/her sign the papers while wearing a blindfold? (No peeking at the visa regulations!) By holding grandma and her two cats hostage in the cellar until the person signs? By promising a pot o' gold at the end of China's Great Wall? |
If you read the complaints about China ESL aka Total ESL aka New Life ESL you will see that upon arriving in China the agent/recruiters try to take "temporary custody" of the teacher's original passport (allegedly to get some special stamp and certified copy). It is during this period that they get the "official" contract done since they do a bait and witch on the job that was offered while the teacher was still back home.
If anyone protests about the new contract they are suddenly informed that they came to China on a tourist visa and are not allowed to work anywhere without the "great connections" of Mother Rebecca who "will look after you". If you demand your passport back they tell you it will be delivered to your hotel in about a week or two. This is how they play.
New arrivals get worried and scared and sign the illegal contracts they use. Did you know they openly charge money for release letters and Rebecca actually admits it in a rebuttal post at the beijinger?
A user at the Beijinger name "Bannoy" totally blew the top off China ESL and then after maybe 30 people chimed in with their own China ESL experiences, the thread vanished and a big display advertisement appeared for China ESL. Coincidence? |
Let's do an IQ test question.
A tourist visa is for tourist like a work visa is for ________.
Come on, you can do it... |
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likwid_777
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 411
Location: NA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:25 am Post subject: |
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I am an L&F visa alumni and my stupidity was to blame for having to leave China. However, I think that there is something to be said of the "less concrete" way of doing things in Asia. Many people probably think that that's just how the Chinese do things, and believe what their boss or recruiter is telling them. After all, that lady or chap is going to be holding their internal or external genitalia throughout their tenure in China. Surely, one should be able to put some faith in them.  Flipside, there were so many people who did it "the right way", and had bogus degrees and TESOL certificates. Ha. Get that Z visa, padawans, get it good. |
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Riff Raff
Joined: 09 Jun 2014
Posts: 85
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 7:45 am Post subject: |
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I get it. This "juice" person's messages are annoying, almost spam-like. But that doesn't mean the content of juice's messages are wrong.
Yeah, be careful when working abroad. Got it. Now I'm off to live life to the fullest instead of reading the same message again and again. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:52 am Post subject: |
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| Juice wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Juice wrote: |
| BUT when companies have to constantly change their identities and lie about visas to trick someone into signing a contract... |
How exactly do their lies force a job seeker into signing? By making him/her sign the papers while wearing a blindfold? (No peeking at the visa regulations!) By holding grandma and her two cats hostage in the cellar until the person signs? By promising a pot o' gold at the end of China's Great Wall? |
If you read the complaints about China ESL aka Total ESL aka New Life ESL you will see that upon arriving in China the agent/recruiters try to take "temporary custody" of the teacher's original passport (allegedly to get some special stamp and certified copy). It is during this period that they get the "official" contract done since they do a bait and witch on the job that was offered while the teacher was still back home.
If anyone protests about the new contract they are suddenly informed that they came to China on a tourist visa and are not allowed to work anywhere without the "great connections" of Mother Rebecca who "will look after you". If you demand your passport back they tell you it will be delivered to your hotel in about a week or two. This is how they play.
New arrivals get worried and scared and sign the illegal contracts they use. Did you know they openly charge money for release letters and Rebecca actually admits it in a rebuttal post at the beijinger?
A user at the Beijinger name "Bannoy" totally blew the top off China ESL and then after maybe 30 people chimed in with their own China ESL experiences, the thread vanished and a big display advertisement appeared for China ESL. Coincidence? |
Please provide documentation of every word of your post.
Last edited by Bud Powell on Tue Aug 05, 2014 8:25 am; edited 1 time in total |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
| Juice wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Juice wrote: |
| BUT when companies have to constantly change their identities and lie about visas to trick someone into signing a contract... |
How exactly do their lies force a job seeker into signing? By making him/her sign the papers while wearing a blindfold? (No peeking at the visa regulations!) By holding grandma and her two cats hostage in the cellar until the person signs? By promising a pot o' gold at the end of China's Great Wall? |
If you read the complaints about China ESL aka Total ESL aka New Life ESL you will see that upon arriving in China the agent/recruiters try to take "temporary custody" of the teacher's original passport (allegedly to get some special stamp and certified copy). It is during this period that they get the "official" contract done since they do a bait and witch on the job that was offered while the teacher was still back home.
If anyone protests about the new contract they are suddenly informed that they came to China on a tourist visa and are not allowed to work anywhere without the "great connections" of Mother Rebecca who "will look after you". If you demand your passport back they tell you it will be delivered to your hotel in about a week or two. This is how they play.
New arrivals get worried and scared and sign the illegal contracts they use. Did you know they openly charge money for release letters and Rebecca actually admits it in a rebuttal post at the beijinger?
A user at the Beijinger name "Bannoy" totally blew the top off China ESL and then after maybe 30 people chimed in with their own China ESL experiences, the thread vanished and a big display advertisement appeared for China ESL. Coincidence? |
Please provide document every word of your post. |
It won't happen.
Remember when I called out that RWA fella to back up a single thing he was saying, take a picture of the supposed CFTU white list he claimed to have (or rather his 'friend' had), provide the contact information with a phone number/address, provide a meeting time, provide one name of someone the CFTU has helped.
What was his response, to ignore, get hostile and/or divert the conversation. |
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