Job Discussion Forums

[MattElz]

What is teaching K-12 in public schools like?

[johnslat]

Dear MattELz,
Sweet sufferin' succotash - what, for that matter, are being married, working abroad, getting older or people in Asia like?
You really do need to narrow your question down a lot more. I've taught K-12 in public schools in 4 different states, and the experience ranged from a unguided tour of Dante's Inferno to fulfilling and enjoyable.
It would be of some help if you could let us have an idea of where in the USA you might be thinking of teaching.
Regards,
John

[MattElz]

Yeah, I realized it was general, but sometimes an open-ended question yields more information.

The reason I posted the question was this: I am headed to teach English for Nova, in Japan, in a few weeks.

A teaching career in the US is a distant possibility ... (I mean, I don't even know if I like teaching yet), but I've been researching the opportunities.

Originally I thought it would be interesting and a good idea to get an MA in TESOL for adult education. I kind of envisioned a possible career teaching foreign students at community colleges for example. (I'm not really into kids, and I'm really not into being a disciplinarian). But after doing some more research, I realized that the benefits, pay, job security, and job availability seemed a lot better for the K-12 route (esp. in public schools).

I'm in NYC. But assuming my adventure in Japan goes well, and my courage is built up, I'm not closed to getting an MATESOL for K-12 and looking in other areas of the country (NY is my hometown).

Anyway, I was just wondering what it's like in terms of a typical workday, issues to think about, lifestyle, etc.

[johnslat]

Dear MattELz,
You're definitely right in your remarks about community colleges. Getting any kind of full-time job in one of those these days is just about impossible, especially in ESL. Often, the one person working full-time will be the "director" of the department; everyone else will be on part-time status, so that no benefits have to be paid and the salaries can be as low as possible.
Working K-12 in public schools CAN be good, but I'd advise staying away from middle school, junior high school openings. Even in the best places, those grades are almost inevitably very stessful; the kids are going through one of the toughest times of life (Can you remember how bad it was? I can, and it was over 45 years ago for me) and maintaining order and enforcing discipline can take up most of your time. I've found the elementary grades to be very rewarding, but I really prefer the senior high school grades.
Breaking in can be tough; the first year will almost certainly be the hardest. After that, it'll get progressively easier. How much of your time it'll take depends in large measure on how dedicated a teacher you are.
Most of the teachers I've known in public schools put in long hours outside the classroom as well. So, one thing you need to discover as soon as possible is - whether you like teaching or not. If you do, you'll likely find that the rewards are worth all the time and effort; if you don't, save yourself some hassle and get into another field - you will sooner or later, anyway.
Workdays in many schools run from 8 - 8:20 to 3 - 3:20, and you'll usually have 4 teaching periods a day, one personal prep period and (often) one group prep period.
If you can come up with any specific question, I'll try to answer them as best I can.
Regards,
John

[MattElz]

Thanks for the help.

Well, how about this: if someone wants to use their summers for something else entirely (in my case writing and traveling), is it possible to shift gear like that, then come back in late August with the ability to give your teaching job 100 percent?

And, do you find that you assist your students outside of class as well, in terms of helping them get acclimated to American culture, practical issues, etc?

How big is class size usually?

Can you briefly describe those best and worst experiences you alluded to in your original reply?

[chinagirl]

I'll bite. Matt, it is going to depend on grade level and subject, the state that you are in, and the district where you work.

I am from NY as well. There is a continuing need for ESL teachers in NY, especially in the NYC/Long Island/Westchester region. Not so much upstate, but still there. The immigrant population is declining b/c of the war and tighter regulations, but there is still a steady incoming stream of students.

As an ESL teacher with a K-12 certification in NY, you could be an itinerant teacher, working at a few schools in one district. You might teach in several grade levels. You might pull out students in small groups, or you might teach large classes of 25 ESL kids at once. It really depends on the population. You might even find yourself co-teaching in a sheltered subject area class (ie. high school science.) In a very small district, you might be the only ESL teacher, serving range of students, grades and levels.

That said, ESL teachers usually seem to enjoy their jobs in NY, more so than some. There is often more flexibility as a specialist.

I am working on my master's and K-12 cert now...PM me if I can give you any specific answers. I have taught elementary school regular ed (public and private) plus I have experience with ESL in the public schools and EFL abroad, and they really have all been very different.

Given the job market, I would say that if you liked kids, the Masters with K-12 cert would be really a very wise move. *If* you like kids, that is. You mentioned that you weren't into teaching kids - why don't you see how your time in Japan goes, and volunteer at a public ESL program in the states a bit before deciding about K-12? Remember, you can still get college-level jobs with that MATESOL/K-12 degree later on, but you can't teach in the public schools without the education track.

Good luck~

[johnslat]

Dear MattELz,

[talawanda]

"volunteer at a public ESL program in the states a bit before deciding about K-12?"
I believe that competition with many unpaid volunteers is one reason for low ESL salaries in the U.S.A, i.e. why pay when you can have teachers for free? Further, do we have people who can "volunteer" to be a Doctor for awhile to see if they like that profession? Or a lawyer? Airline pilot? Judge? Etc.
As long as we are giving advice as above, we are shooting ourselves in the foot.

[chinagirl]

Nobody would be getting anything for free if you were to volunteer in a public school. K-12 teachers are required to be certified. You would be working alongside a teacher, not actually taking the place of one. You'd be helping an overworked teacher out, perhaps, but the school would not be replacing hired a teacher.

Do some public school observations before you jump into a credential program or master's degree. It's a good idea.

[talawanda]

"Nobody would be getting anything for free if you were to volunteer in a public school." ??? Am I missing something here? If a person is working but not being paid, isn't that person's labor "something for free?"
Please enlighten.

[chinagirl]

Volunteers in public schools in the United States can help teachers when they do things like make copies, help to decorate classrooms, tutor children who need extra help, etc. While this is certainly labor, you are not replacing instruction by a classroom teacher. All I was saying was that as a volunteer you are helping out an individual teacher in a public school. ESOL teachers in public schools are certified teachers and fully salaried professionals according to their districts and are not the hourly, underpaid instructors of the kind that you may be thinking of. Public schools are, however, usually shortstaffed of aides and support staff, and school volunteers, usually parents, are valuable helpers to overworked teachers.

As I finish my master's degree, I am working with TESOL professionals who as career teachers in public schools are making very good salaries with benefits. Volunteering at a public school is beneficial for everyone and is certainly not contributing to low teacher salaries. In fact, volunteering experience is not only a good way to test the waters, but will indeed help your chances of getting hired at other public schools if you are eventually certified.

We need to make a distinction between people who are teaching in adult ed and people who are teaching in public schools. The low, irregular salaries at the college level made me decide to teach at the public school level instead. The starting salary in my district with a master's degree is $35,000 plus benefits. My colleague, a teacher for the last 20 years, is making over 60K. No one is getting rich, but we are not starving, either. Salaries are negotiated by the teachers' union for teachers of all subjects, not just ESOL. You are paid on the salary scale for your years of experience and your education.

[talawanda]

[size=24][/size]If ESL are in fact overworked and must rely on the [i][b]goodwill[/b][/i] of volunteers to get by it is a slam on the system. I believe most Americans are so busy looking out for themselves that they have little time for bettering or interest in the welfare of immigrants or anyone else with poor English language ability. Thus the dirth of funds for ESL programs in general.
A major problem for those "professionals" in the ESL field is our society's unstated but real belief that any citizen with a general public education can teach English, especially at the lower levels, simply because he/she is a native speaker. Get real friends, no degrees necessary except for those in the degree granting business. [/b]