Job Discussion Forums

[3701 W.119th]

Here we go again..

[vikeologist]

I'm not so sure this is the sock puppet.

Really this speaks to a larger point, which is that laws themselves aren't really all that binding in China. Most 'laws' in China are more like strong advice. In almost every sphere of life, the issue isn't what the law is, it's whether you stand any chance of getting the law enforced.

The legal rights of foreign teachers are like having a pair of Kings; not bad, but don't bet the house on it.

[jas5sk]

[Wo Dong]

My OP post on this subject just vanished for some strange reason so I will repost what I wrote two days ago so people at least know what we are talking about here...

Over the holiday weekend I was talking with my Chinese father-in-law who is a China labor law lawyer who got his JD from Renmin University and his undergrad from Stanford. I only point this out so people don't suggest that I "misunderstood him".

We were talking about both the disparity and equality of employment contracts with professional Chinese employees and expat foreign teachers in China. It came up that Chinese demand really specific contracts yet foreign employees always get really vague contracts - BY DESIGN.

I showed him this contract at the below link and he shocked me when he told me that no employee in China (including us foreigners) is bound by ANY CONTRACT THAT VIOLATES CHINESE LAW!

http://open.salon.com/blog/china_business_central/2013/02/21/chinese_school_principals_now_millionaires

I asked him for examples and he said that we can bail on any contract that violates the following Chinese labor laws:

* No employee can be compelled to work unpaid overtime hours

* All employees must be provided a written job description of their position when hired

* Foreign employees must be provided invitation and release letters (free of charge)

* Foreign employees can only be hired by properly registered and licensed companies with a minimum registered capital of 3 million rmb.

* Internships may not exceed 90 consecutive days and unpaid internships are prohibited.

* Probationary periods cannot exceed one month for every year of contracted employment

* Contract employees are not required to perform any task that is not specifically defined in their written job description.

* No company can hold nor detain the passport nor identification papers of any employee.

* No employee is allowed to work for any company that evades payment of any taxes in China at the municipal, provincial, and central levels.

Yes, I know - Chinese employees will do anything asked of them to keep their precious big city jobs. But the point I am making here is that foreign teachers are not obligated to honor an illegal contract and can bail without fear once these laws are violated.

And if employers make threats against teachers who want to resign, you should just remind the employer that they are violating labor laws and once you file a formal complaint, they will be obligated by law to make full disclosure of their license, payroll, and tax records as well as post a 500,000 rmb deposit with the arbitration board until the matter is settled.

[wangdaning]

Hope he smacked you too for not knowing it in the first place. Of course law protects workers. If that law is actually applied is what gets us. Or better, can we actually get a lawyer who will defend us. I think the answer is yes.

[newmansone]

The topic itself is useless. Illegal contracts are thus non-binding to law - that is the definition of violation of law.

[Wo Dong]

If you think this topic is useless, you better stock up on vaseline if you come to China. The reason this "law" means something is that the Chinese government recently passed what is roughly translated as the "labor equality law" which means foreigners and local Chinese have equal rights according to law and not the double standard they had since 1979 when rule of law became official.

[Capt Lugwash]

Beijing also banned smoking in clubs, bars and restaurants on 1st May, 2011 and that went well didn't it? They further extended the ban to college and university campus shops not being allowed to sell tobacco products. That's working isn't it?

Recently they banned teachers from taking gratuities from parents and students. How will that work do you think?

Laws are only effective if they are enforced and the majority abide by them. In China any law people don't like is simply ignored.

[MNguy]

China should make a law regarding literacy of FTs

[The_Kong]

Awww, I was just thinking how quiet and nice the forums have been since your last incarnation got banned.

Welcome back old friend!

Can someone start a timer to see how long this one lasts?

[Wo Dong]

[Bud Powell]

I agree. And they should also publish and distribute contract laws in English and distribute them to all the embassies. My guess is that most every foreign teacher not working in a public school or university is working with an illegal contract.

Why not pass them out to every employer too?

ALL public universities don't follow according to the "laws" you've posted. Again, another sweeping generalization.

This topic has been covered relentlessly for the past six months. I won't be surprised if you're banned shortly.

Adios in case someone pushes the ejector button soon.

Happy Every Day.

[Wo Dong]

[Capt Lugwash]

Your willingness to help all of us is duly noted. The relationship between employer and employee, in order to be a rewarding one for both, naturally has to be a matter of give and take on both sides.

Was it you who wanted to relieve people of 10,000y to escape contracts that weren't binding in any event?

[Wo Dong]