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PortableIncome
Joined: 16 Aug 2014
Posts: 2
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 Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 3:59 am Post subject: Teacher Age Discrimination In Vietnam |
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Hello:
Can anyone give feedback on your perception of how older teachers are treated in hiring and in actual classroom use.
Have you noticed any discrimination where you work?
Are the schools looking for younger teachers or will they also accept those who are in their sixties?
Or, do you notice that older teachers are given more respect?
Just wondering how it is folks. Give me your feedback.
Thanks,
PortableIncome |
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mark_in_saigon
Joined: 20 Sep 2009
Posts: 837
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| Posted: Thu Sep 11, 2014 6:23 am Post subject: |
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A million stories in the naked city.
Any discrimination where you work?
Has anyone ever worked anywhere that they did not notice discrimination? A rather natural part of life, at least over here they do not pretend about it, instead it is upfront. Notice how the ads will clearly state age and height requirements for the natives.
My take on the job scene: There are several markets within a market. At least 3. One is mostly for nominal speakers of English, but some of the least qualified native speakers fall in there. Not a good place for an older westerner, or any westerner.
Another is the majority of jobs, about 15 bucks an hour, with folks of all descriptions striving for these jobs, or accepting them. This is where most of the older guys end up, and it seems a pretty sad situation IF the income is important to them. However, if you have assets and are teaching for the joy of the work, it can be okay, and maybe even better than high paying work, as you can often get in and get out with minimal preparation. Bad thing is, at this level, employers mostly want people who are beholding to them, they are not seeking independent ideas, they mostly just want a western face and a good show.
The high level jobs are where older guys might prefer to work. Bad thing here, it takes a while to work your way in. Certainly the employers will question your long term viability, and if you are a new arrival, the deck is stacked against you. If you have proven mastery of a niche, such as IELTS or some other specialized skill sets, you may come out okay. But saying it is one thing, having that profile and getting the work is another. Just a few of our guys are in this boat. Appearance matters too, if this is your profile. Looking younger is worth brownie points. Not just age discrimination, but appearance too.
Students may respect older people more. But I would not expect this to work in your favor in getting hired. Mostly they want to make money and want to run it their way, right or wrong. Your experience, knowledge and independence can get in the way of that. |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:23 am Post subject: |
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| mark_in_saigon wrote: |
Students may respect older people more. But I would not expect this to work in your favor in getting hired. Mostly they want to make money and want to run it their way, right or wrong. |
Yep, I think this sums it up pretty well. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 4:47 am Post subject: |
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I would say age discrimination applies pretty much for anyone outside the 'ideal' 20-35 age range. You can get hired at any age - up to 60 anyway - but it is harder.
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
So - there is a problem finding work if you're older but it is not insuperable.
I agree the above reasons seem to be behind it but it is difficult to prove. Who knows what they think? |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Fri Sep 12, 2014 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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| skarper wrote: |
I would say age discrimination applies pretty much for anyone outside the 'ideal' 20-35 age range. You can get hired at any age - up to 60 anyway - but it is harder.
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
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If a school, esp. a lingo school thinks you are "Mr. Handsome" you are better off than somebody who is actually a better teacher but not "handsome".
Qualifications? What a joke   |
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Oh My God
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Sat Sep 13, 2014 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Prof.Gringo wrote: |
| skarper wrote: |
I would say age discrimination applies pretty much for anyone outside the 'ideal' 20-35 age range. You can get hired at any age - up to 60 anyway - but it is harder.
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
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If a school, esp. a lingo school thinks you are "Mr. Handsome" you are better off than somebody who is actually a better teacher but not "handsome".
Qualifications? What a joke |
And this will also apply to Edutainment, even more so! |
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ielts_professional1992
Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| im 21 and never had problems with this in my school.they never asked my age.dont want to bost but pretty good salary,check out ielts school Usa in Hanoi good wages no resources but hey just print something from internet and collect the money at the end of the day.dunno how the police dont care about the ielts thing.because ielts is pretty serious but this place seem's like a bit of a joke,anyone can get job here $14 an hour no worries, not enough hours though i've only got three this week and my landlord wants 9months rent up front,dunno what to do maybe email mum and dad ask for some lol. |
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ieltsteacher102
Joined: 24 Jun 2014
Posts: 37
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| Posted: Mon Sep 15, 2014 10:17 am Post subject: |
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professional ielts trainer  welcome to vietnam  hope to see you testing at the british council this weekend |
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ielts_professional1992
Joined: 06 Sep 2014
Posts: 16
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| Posted: Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| british council?i think you mean embassy mate get ur facts right |
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PortableIncome
Joined: 16 Aug 2014
Posts: 2
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| Posted: Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:09 am Post subject: |
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| skarper wrote: |
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
So - there is a problem finding work if you're older but it is not insuperable.
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What if a person is older and handsome like this guy pictured here?
https://www.facebook.com/JPJFanPage
This is not me but a good example of how a person can be older but still good looking.
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| PortableIncome wrote: |
| skarper wrote: |
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
So - there is a problem finding work if you're older but it is not insuperable.
|
What if a person is older and handsome like this guy pictured here?
https://www.facebook.com/JPJFanPage
This is not me but a good example of how a person can be older but still good looking.
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Vietnamese wouldn't consider him handsome. I think people are referring to Vietnamese beauty standards. Tall, not overly fat, white skin, blond hair, blue eyes, no beards, etc.
The guy in the photo could get a job here if he was qualified, but none of the small-time, locally run language schools would consider him. For them it's all about appearance. So they want a young, attractive person who might not know anything about teaching.
There are serious schools here, but they get to take their pick from the best of best who apply. So you have to have some serious resume and interviewing skills. |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:08 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| PortableIncome wrote: |
| skarper wrote: |
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
So - there is a problem finding work if you're older but it is not insuperable.
|
What if a person is older and handsome like this guy pictured here?
https://www.facebook.com/JPJFanPage
This is not me but a good example of how a person can be older but still good looking.
|
Vietnamese wouldn't consider him handsome. I think people are referring to Vietnamese beauty standards. Tall, not overly fat, white skin, blond hair, blue eyes, no beards, etc.
The guy in the photo could get a job here if he was qualified, but none of the small-time, locally run language schools would consider him. For them it's all about appearance. So they want a young, attractive person who might not know anything about teaching.
There are serious schools here, but they get to take their pick from the best of best who apply. So you have to have some serious resume and interviewing skills. |
Ohhhh so most schools are a joke? Or they aren't? Which is it? Please enlighten us all... I'm waiting in eager anticipation for your well crafted reply. |
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lexpat
Joined: 23 May 2004
Posts: 56
Location: Meh
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| PortableIncome wrote: |
| skarper wrote: |
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
So - there is a problem finding work if you're older but it is not insuperable.
|
What if a person is older and handsome like this guy pictured here?
https://www.facebook.com/JPJFanPage
This is not me but a good example of how a person can be older but still good looking.
|
Vietnamese wouldn't consider him handsome. I think people are referring to Vietnamese beauty standards. Tall, not overly fat, white skin, blond hair, blue eyes, no beards, etc.
The guy in the photo could get a job here if he was qualified, but none of the small-time, locally run language schools would consider him. For them it's all about appearance. So they want a young, attractive person who might not know anything about teaching.
There are serious schools here, but they get to take their pick from the best of best who apply. So you have to have some serious resume and interviewing skills. |
Wow. I've lived in VN, off and on, for over a decade and I have NEVER heard anybody say Viets like blue eyed blondes. Opposite. For many years anyone with blue eyes was consigned to the fields and unable to work at any real job because it was supposed they were the shameful spawn of a peasant and a Western soldier. I think a lot of that has carried over.
When it comes to appearance, Viets (especially in the south) like people who look like them: round faced, plump, with high forehead. Turks, Greeks, Hispanics, etc. are most highly esteemed as long as they aren't too dark. Scandinavians (and light haired Russians), the least. A smiley, fat faced, pale Celtic type with dark eyes, no interest in Western Civ of any sort, and a gift for gab is best of all! Understand, Viets don't REALLY admire good looks any more than they do intelligence. They are some of the most resentful folks on the planet.
But actually, I don't think Viets care about appearance anywhere near as much as people in most countries. They like people who are 'active,' as they say. They want to get their money's worth. Far more wash out because they fail to jump around like the lackey they are than because they are too old or ugly.
Last edited by lexpat on Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:52 am; edited 4 times in total |
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Prof.Gringo
Joined: 07 Nov 2006
Posts: 2236
Location: Dang Cong San Viet Nam Quang Vinh Muon Nam!
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:45 am Post subject: |
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| lexpat wrote: |
| ExpatLuke wrote: |
| PortableIncome wrote: |
| skarper wrote: |
It is easier for women and much easier for handsome/good-looking people.
So - there is a problem finding work if you're older but it is not insuperable.
|
What if a person is older and handsome like this guy pictured here?
https://www.facebook.com/JPJFanPage
This is not me but a good example of how a person can be older but still good looking.
|
Vietnamese wouldn't consider him handsome. I think people are referring to Vietnamese beauty standards. Tall, not overly fat, white skin, blond hair, blue eyes, no beards, etc.
The guy in the photo could get a job here if he was qualified, but none of the small-time, locally run language schools would consider him. For them it's all about appearance. So they want a young, attractive person who might not know anything about teaching.
There are serious schools here, but they get to take their pick from the best of best who apply. So you have to have some serious resume and interviewing skills. |
Wow. I've lived in VN, off and on, for over a decade and I have NEVER heard anybody say Viets like blue eyed blondes. Opposite. For many years anyone with blue eyes was consigned to the fields and unable to work at any real job because it was supposed they were the shameful spawn of a peasant and a Western soldier. I think a lot of that has carried over.
When it comes to appearance, Viets (especially in the south) like people who look like them: round faced, plump, with high forehead. Turks, Greeks, Hispanics, etc. are most highly esteemed as long as they aren't too dark. Scandinavians (and light haired Russians), the least. A nice fat faced pale Celtic type with a gift for gab is best of all!
But actually, I don't think Viets care about appearance anywhere near as much as people in most countries. They like people who are 'active,' as they say. They want to get their money's worth. Far more wash out because they fail to jump around like the lackey they are than because they are too old or ugly. |
B I N G O!
Jump-around! Hop, skip, jump, sing & shout!
ACTIVE is the KEY in VN
Agree 100% !!! |
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ExpatLuke
Joined: 11 Feb 2012
Posts: 744
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| Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| lexpat wrote: |
Wow. I've lived in VN, off and on, for over a decade and I have NEVER heard anybody say Viets like blue eyed blondes. Opposite. For many years anyone with blue eyes was consigned to the fields and unable to work at any real job because it was supposed they were the shameful spawn of a peasant and a Western soldier. I think a lot of that has carried over.
When it comes to appearance, Viets (especially in the south) like people who look like them: round faced, plump, with high forehead. Turks, Greeks, Hispanics, etc. are most highly esteemed as long as they aren't too dark. Scandinavians (and light haired Russians), the least. A smiley, fat faced, pale Celtic type with dark eyes, no interest in Western Civ of any sort, and a gift for gab is best of all! Understand, Viets don't REALLY admire good looks any more than they do intelligence. They are some of the most resentful folks on the planet.
But actually, I don't think Viets care about appearance anywhere near as much as people in most countries. They like people who are 'active,' as they say. They want to get their money's worth. Far more wash out because they fail to jump around like the lackey they are than because they are too old or ugly. |
I don't know what to say other than that everything you just wrote is total bullsh*t. And anyone who's lived here in the last decade would tell you that.
I don't if this was some attempt at a joke that went over my head, but misinformation like that should be illegal. |
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