Job Discussion Forums

[Baggio]

Hi everyone,

My girlfriend and I currently need some advice about taking the next step in our careers.

Just to give a quick lowdown: Both from the UK, Been in Asia for over 18 months, year in China and now 6 months in Korea. Sick of the hagwon type schools and want to better ourselves.

We are considering our next move, we know the jobs we are doing in Asia at the minute stand for nothing and want to rise above it. We were on board for doing a CELTA next year, but now we are researching doing a MA in TESOL or a PGCEI.

Our goal ultimately is to move back to Europe and find stable jobs with a decent income, we aren't naive, we know Europe isn't the place to earn lots of money but it's where we both eventually see ourselves settling.

What do people suggest as our best course of action? We were considering the PGCEI because if a family member got sick and we had to return to the UK it would be a viable option to teach there, but having read numerous reviews about it on here it doesn't seem like it holds much water?

Is it strictly a match up between a MA in TESOL or doing a CELTA?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Thanks.

[spiral78]

For a future in Europe, you need a CELTA (basic required qualification for the region)
and

1. if you want to work in management/DOS/teacher training positions, DELTA
2. if you want to try for the (relatively rarer) university jobs, MA TESL/TEFL or MA Education

The PGCEI is pure online and so far as I know, not particularly likely to get you a job in this competitive market. DELTA would probably serve you better - and ideally taken in Europe while you are teaching European students.

A bit of bad news: your experience in Asia won't likely be highly respected by European employers; it's fairly well-known that the teaching differences between the two regions are significant. You can find more about this on the General Europe board, where there is a discussion of the differences. http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=95456&start=0

[psychedelicacy]

The sensible answer is to do CELTA and get more teaching experience. That said, if you can afford, and have time for, an MATESOL, you're bound to find at least one that will let you in, even with your very modest experience, because they just want money and bums on seats.

CELTA is an entry-level qualification and costs circa £1,500. An MA is, well, an MA and costs circa £5,000, so CELTA is 30% the cost of an MA - extremely expensive for what it is. Of course, I have overlooked other costs, namely living costs, of doing an MA. But still, in a straight 50/50 toss-up between CELTA and MA, although a bit of a gamble because you've so little teaching experience, an MA is going to put you at the front of the queue for jobs, whereas a CELTA is not.

[spiral78]

Just to be really clear, the European hiring committees I've served on over the years would not consider someone with only experience in Asia + and MA. A CELTA would be considered a necessary step, and ideally done in Europe with European students.

[Baggio]

Thanks for the replies folks.

I know the experiences in Asia means zero in terms of Europe.

From what I've read doing a MA TESOL without an observed teaching practice element is a bit useless in Europe? Is that correct?

Talking hypothetically here, if we went back to the UK and completed a PGCE and everything that it entails, would that be of any substance to potential employers in Europe?

Spiral are you still teaching in Europe?

[spiral78]

If you have observed teaching practice elsewhere, then you may not need an MA that includes it. CELTA alone isn't likely to be enough, though.
PGCE is usually more relevant to teaching kiddies, I think. There are some segments of the European market where this would be useful. Less so for universities.
Yes, I have been based in Europe (with a 2-year break in Canada) since 1998. Still here. No plans to relocate work-wise.

[Baggio]

[I'm With Stupid]

Your third option is to do a CELTA, followed by a DELTA, followed by a masters. A lot of masters degrees will recognise the DELTA (or Trinity Diploma) as credits towards a masters, but obviously you're enjoying the benefits of having a DELTA while you're studying for a masters.

Perhaps more important in Europe is learning the language of the country you want to work in. It doesn't have to be fluent, of course, but a lot of jobs in Western Europe require at least an A2 understanding of the local language, with the expectation that you'll improve when you get there. But obviously it's hard to know which language to learn if you don't know which country you'll end up in.

[spiral78]

[Baggio]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Greatly appreciated. Spiral do you mind if I sent you a PM to pick your brain about a few things?

[spiral78]

Sure.