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Capt Lugwash
Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 346
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:05 pm Post subject: Qualifications to teach in China? |
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This seems to be an emotive subject so I will try to keep it as low key as possible.
What do the forum members believe are the legal (emphasis on legal) requirements for obtaining a Z visa and subsequent FEC and RP for teaching in China?
Please do not troll this thread as I am genuinely interested. |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Qualifications to teach in China? |
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| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
This seems to be an emotive subject so I will try to keep it as low key as possible.
What do the forum members believe are the legal (emphasis on legal) requirements for obtaining a Z visa and subsequent FEC and RP for teaching in China?
Please do not troll this thread as I am genuinely interested. |
We keep seeing the same question over and over because there is no one answer.
China is a huge country and different areas have different regulations (or interpretation of regulations).
Your question needs to be changed a little, how about "What are the minimum requirements I need to have to get almost any job in China?"
The answer to that question is a bachelor degree, 2 years of post graduate work (teaching) experience, and some sort of TEFL/CELTA certificate.
If you have all 3 of the above you'll have very little problems getting pretty much any job you want (outside of international schools).
Not all schools require the above, but any decent place does. |
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Capt Lugwash
Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 346
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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Therein lies why I posted the question.
Of your three criteria I have but one - a TEFL certificate.
No degree, no teaching experience. Well, four years now but only AFTER I started teaching where I am now.
And I am teaching at a public university with full disclosure on my part and soon will start my fifth year with them.
I have seen many posts lauding the "degree" as being a requirement or "the law" but as it hasn't applied to me I was rather hoping for some concrete information. |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
Therein lies why I posted the question.
Of your three criteria I have but one - a TEFL certificate.
No degree, no teaching experience. Well, four years now but only AFTER I started teaching where I am now.
And I am teaching at a public university with full disclosure on my part and soon will start my fifth year with them.
I have seen many posts lauding the "degree" as being a requirement or "the law" but as it hasn't applied to me I was rather hoping for some concrete information. |
Your not going to find any concrete information.
Even if someone could post a link to the statute that says foreign teachers must have such and such degree/experience etc. it wouldn't matter since obviously it's not followed everywhere in China, as evidenced in your case.
That's why the question I posed is, in my opinion, a much more realistic approach to what your original question is trying to get at. |
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Capt Lugwash
Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 346
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Actually I am not "trying to get at" anything other than what the law/regulations state.
Yes I know TIC but I see so many jobs advertised with BA preferred/required yet when it boils down to it, what is enough to get the FEC and Rp is really what counts in my experience.
I didn't want to start an argument - and I am not suggesting you are doing so by any means - it was simply another thread has been locked where it was stated the law stipulated a degree and I know it not to be the case because I have none and I have only furnished the truth to the Chinese authorities. At one point after reading on here a couple of years ago (more bull dung) I did have concerns and asked my uni what documents they had used to obtain my permits and they said the ones I had provided.
Ergo, as far as I am concerned, a degree is not a requisite - although some proof of a decent level of education may be. That I have. albeit it is not called a degree and to be honest I don't want it to be. |
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3701 W.119th
Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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This is getting ridiculous now.
This forum is mostly nonsense. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
I didn't want to start an argument - and I am not suggesting you are doing so by any means - it was simply another thread has been locked where it was stated the law stipulated a degree and I know it not to be the case because I have none and I have only furnished the truth to the Chinese authorities. At one point after reading on here a couple of years ago (more bull dung) I did have concerns and asked my uni what documents they had used to obtain my permits and they said the ones I had provided.
Ergo, as far as I am concerned, a degree is not a requisite - although some proof of a decent level of education may be. That I have. albeit it is not called a degree and to be honest I don't want it to be. |
If you're adamant about not upgrading your academic qualifications to a BA and possibly completing a basic TEFL cert, then it's unclear what your reason is in asking about the minimum requirements. Are you concerned 1) about the possibility your job and visa status in China will be in jeopardy if certain minimum requirements are enforced; or 2) that others with stronger quals might be hired over you; or 3) that you want to eventually leave your current place of employment for other teaching opportunities in China? Or...? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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OP this forum is not a striptease.
Progressively unveiling your situation isn't the way to go. Hell, you're more qualified than most!
I hate to flame and try to avoid it, but really! |
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toteach
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Some provinces have set legal minimums, such as Guangdong. No BA? No job. Over 65? No job.
When the law went into effect about 2006, the school I was working at was unable to renew contracts with a large number of foreigners. Some of these foreigners went to jobs elsewhere in China where the restrictions were less strict. Some threw in their hats and left the country.
Who knows if it's still the law or not--or if schools choose to adhere to it. But at one brief time this new law caused ripples in the ESL community. |
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Piper2
Joined: 13 Jun 2014
Posts: 146
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
Actually I am not "trying to get at" anything other than what the law/regulations state.
Yes I know TIC but I see so many jobs advertised with BA preferred/required yet when it boils down to it, what is enough to get the FEC and Rp is really what counts in my experience.
I didn't want to start an argument - and I am not suggesting you are doing so by any means - it was simply another thread has been locked where it was stated the law stipulated a degree and I know it not to be the case because I have none and I have only furnished the truth to the Chinese authorities. At one point after reading on here a couple of years ago (more bull dung) I did have concerns and asked my uni what documents they had used to obtain my permits and they said the ones I had provided.
Ergo, as far as I am concerned, a degree is not a requisite - although some proof of a decent level of education may be. That I have. albeit it is not called a degree and to be honest I don't want it to be. |
It is not uncommon for schools to lie. To everyone. Your school probably informed the authorities that you have a degree and experience. Now your school is lying to you about lying to the authorities. How else do you explain that you have an FEC and RP?
Even though you have the necessary Chinese legal documents to teach here I would say that you are in a precarious legal situation. If it was discovered that the school presented fake documents the school/FAO could, and almost certainly would, claim that you provided them and lied to them. It does not even matter if you have proof that you did not lie about your lack of degree and experience, you would have knowingly worked illegally.
I would hate to be in your situation...relying on staff at school to continue to find you useful...and only one phone call away from jail. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:02 am Post subject: |
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It does seem a bit strange. I have two of the three, no cert for teaching. Six years in and not planning on getting one, not really an English teacher in that sense and know about the methodology taught in those courses.
None of us can answer the op though. I suggest going to the local in n out bureau and asking what they require.  |
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IWTFanAT
Joined: 02 Jul 2014
Posts: 36
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:04 am Post subject: Re: Qualifications to teach in China? |
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| The_Kong wrote: |
| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
This seems to be an emotive subject so I will try to keep it as low key as possible.
What do the forum members believe are the legal (emphasis on legal) requirements for obtaining a Z visa and subsequent FEC and RP for teaching in China?
Please do not troll this thread as I am genuinely interested. |
We keep seeing the same question over and over because there is no one answer.
China is a huge country and different areas have different regulations (or interpretation of regulations).
Your question needs to be changed a little, how about "What are the minimum requirements I need to have to get almost any job in China?"
The answer to that question is a bachelor degree, 2 years of post graduate work (teaching) experience, and some sort of TEFL/CELTA certificate.
If you have all 3 of the above you'll have very little problems getting pretty much any job you want (outside of international schools).
Not all schools require the above, but any decent place does. |
"The_Kong" has no clue what he/she is talking about and is talking in circles. The LEGAL REQUIREMENTS are simple and clear and documented. Whatever secondary qualifications an employer requires has nothing to do with the legal necessities. Use the search function of the forum, use the search functions of the Internet and you can see the documented, legal requirements to obtain a work visa in China. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Qualifications to teach in China? |
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| IWTFanAT wrote: |
"The_Kong" has no clue what he/she is talking about and is talking in circles. The LEGAL REQUIREMENTS are simple and clear and documented. Whatever secondary qualifications an employer requires has nothing to do with the legal necessities. Use the search function of the forum, use the search functions of the Internet and you can see the documented, legal requirements to obtain a work visa in China. |
So, you have checked every consulate website and found them to all match up? Even then, you are forgetting about consular discretion in matters like visas?
The world is not black and white, which makes it hard on new comers. I wish it could be clearer, but who am I? This is also not strictly a Chinese thing. People get in and out of things that are written down in some place, and some others get in trouble for it.
I will say with the number of teachers here now, people are learning what makes a teacher. If you are a fumbling idiot in class your students will know. I was ill last winter and was a fumbling idiot in my class (been teaching them for weeks), the students asked me to stop.
People pay good money for these things and they expect someone who is competent. |
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The_Kong
Joined: 15 Apr 2014
Posts: 349
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 1:08 am Post subject: Re: Qualifications to teach in China? |
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| IWTFanAT wrote: |
| The_Kong wrote: |
| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
This seems to be an emotive subject so I will try to keep it as low key as possible.
What do the forum members believe are the legal (emphasis on legal) requirements for obtaining a Z visa and subsequent FEC and RP for teaching in China?
Please do not troll this thread as I am genuinely interested. |
We keep seeing the same question over and over because there is no one answer.
China is a huge country and different areas have different regulations (or interpretation of regulations).
Your question needs to be changed a little, how about "What are the minimum requirements I need to have to get almost any job in China?"
The answer to that question is a bachelor degree, 2 years of post graduate work (teaching) experience, and some sort of TEFL/CELTA certificate.
If you have all 3 of the above you'll have very little problems getting pretty much any job you want (outside of international schools).
Not all schools require the above, but any decent place does. |
"The_Kong" has no clue what he/she is talking about and is talking in circles. The LEGAL REQUIREMENTS are simple and clear and documented. Whatever secondary qualifications an employer requires has nothing to do with the legal necessities. Use the search function of the forum, use the search functions of the Internet and you can see the documented, legal requirements to obtain a work visa in China. |
Yeah, I do. It's my job to know these things, I personally handle processing the paperwork to apply for a FEC and letter of invitation, I personally translate all the documents, fill out the forms online to apply for a FEC, I go with the headmaster to drop things off and pick them up at the PSB and provincial government, I'm involved in every step from A-Z in hiring new teachers and have been for a couple of years now.
It's responses like yours that lead people to start getting unnecessarily hostile because you half-read someones post and then start attacking people personally when there is no need to do so.
Go back, read my answer again.
I never said it was the legal requirement, what I said was a better question would be 'What do I need to get almost any job in China?' and once again the answer to that is if you have BA, you have TEFL/CELTA certificate, and you have 2 years of experience you'll be able to get the majority of jobs offered in China.
It's my job to keep up with what other schools are offering in terms of pay and benefits packages to make sure we stay competitive and I can tell you, with the above qualification you would have no problem getting a job.
My question is better for reasons I've already stated and I've already answered the OP's question:
1) It varies
2) Enforcement/interpretation varies so it doesn't really matter what the statute is
If you know the legal requirement as you claim to, and they are so black and white as you suggest, why don't you post a link or some kind of evidence to back up what your saying? |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:41 am Post subject: Re: Qualifications to teach in China? |
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| IWTFanAT wrote: |
| The_Kong wrote: |
| Capt Lugwash wrote: |
This seems to be an emotive subject so I will try to keep it as low key as possible.
What do the forum members believe are the legal (emphasis on legal) requirements for obtaining a Z visa and subsequent FEC and RP for teaching in China?
Please do not troll this thread as I am genuinely interested. |
We keep seeing the same question over and over because there is no one answer.
China is a huge country and different areas have different regulations (or interpretation of regulations).
Your question needs to be changed a little, how about "What are the minimum requirements I need to have to get almost any job in China?"
The answer to that question is a bachelor degree, 2 years of post graduate work (teaching) experience, and some sort of TEFL/CELTA certificate.
If you have all 3 of the above you'll have very little problems getting pretty much any job you want (outside of international schools).
Not all schools require the above, but any decent place does. |
"The_Kong" has no clue what he/she is talking about and is talking in circles. The LEGAL REQUIREMENTS are simple and clear and documented. Whatever secondary qualifications an employer requires has nothing to do with the legal necessities. Use the search function of the forum, use the search functions of the Internet and you can see the documented, legal requirements to obtain a work visa in China. |
If it were really that simple, someone with such a no-nonsense approach could simply have posted them with a source provided. No one has, so I'm guessing there isn't one. But most of the better jobs will insist on a degree and experience at least. |
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