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dstaats1
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:07 am Post subject: Agents in China- Are they any good? |
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Hey all,
I am conducting research on agencies in China. I would love for some current teachers in China to fill out this survey for me! It will definitely help the future of recruiting teachers in China, and it will also help me graduate! Thank you in advance!
https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WBX6JYP |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 4:50 am Post subject: Re: Agents in China- Are they any good? |
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| dstaats1 wrote: |
| It will definitely help the future of recruiting teachers in China, and it will also help me graduate! |
How exactly do you intend to use the results of this short survey to improve recruitment of teachers throughout China? |
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Banner41
Joined: 04 Jan 2011
Posts: 656
Location: Shanghai
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| The wording of the question in the title already implies a biased and anyone doing any sort of non-biased survey would surly know this right? |
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dstaats1
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
dstaats1 wrote:
It will definitely help the future of recruiting teachers in China, and it will also help me graduate!
How exactly do you intend to use the results of this short survey to improve recruitment of teachers throughout China? |
I am using the qualitative and quantitative data from the surveys by cross analyzing it with several agency interviews that I have also conducted. This way the data can be compared by answering several questions falling under some categories including expectations, follow through, visa help, ect...
| Quote: |
The wording of the question in the title already implies a biased and anyone doing any sort of non-biased survey would surly know this right? |
You make a good point here. However, I just used that as the title of this post to grab attention. But it is simply asking a question, it does not state they are good or bad. The actual title of the survey is "Views of Recruiting Agencies in China" |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| dstaats1 wrote: |
| It will definitely help the future of recruiting teachers in China, and it will also help me graduate! |
| and wrote: |
| I am using the qualitative and quantitative data from the surveys by cross analyzing it with several agency interviews that I have also conducted. This way the data can be compared by answering several questions falling under some categories including expectations, follow through, visa help, ect... |
How will a few interviews, a survey, and your analysis actually improve teacher recruitment in China? In other words, what do you intend to do with your findings in order to affect how teachers are recruited? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| You probably mean well, but unless you can imbricate data results that utilize quantifiable, verifiable, and targeted methodologies, results of your research will be suspect. On second thought, after so much hubbub over recruiters, agencies, and agents in the recent past, your stated goal seems highly disingenuous. |
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dstaats1
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| dstaats1 wrote: |
| It will definitely help the future of recruiting teachers in China, and it will also help me graduate! |
| and wrote: |
| I am using the qualitative and quantitative data from the surveys by cross analyzing it with several agency interviews that I have also conducted. This way the data can be compared by answering several questions falling under some categories including expectations, follow through, visa help, ect... |
How will a few interviews, a survey, and your analysis actually improve teacher recruitment in China? In other words, what do you intend to do with your findings in order to affect how teachers are recruited? |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
| You probably mean well, but unless you can imbricate data results that utilize quantifiable, verifiable, and targeted methodologies, results of your research will be suspect. On second thought, after so much hubbub over recruiters, agencies, and agents in the recent past, your stated goal seems highly disingenuous. |
I appreciate both of your concerns about this study. I would also be happy to share with both of you the results of the study and the final thesis when it is complete.
As for the insincerity of my goal, my thesis is merely a way to present data about the field of recruiting in China. Again, I would love to pass along the final thesis. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| dstaats1 wrote: |
| As for the insincerity of my goal, my thesis is merely a way to present data about the field of recruiting in China. |
That's much more realistic and believable compared to your previous statement that your research will improve teacher recruitment in China. |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 2:17 am Post subject: |
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| dstaats1 wrote: |
| nomad soul wrote: |
| dstaats1 wrote: |
| It will definitely help the future of recruiting teachers in China, and it will also help me graduate! |
| and wrote: |
| I am using the qualitative and quantitative data from the surveys by cross analyzing it with several agency interviews that I have also conducted. This way the data can be compared by answering several questions falling under some categories including expectations, follow through, visa help, ect... |
How will a few interviews, a survey, and your analysis actually improve teacher recruitment in China? In other words, what do you intend to do with your findings in order to affect how teachers are recruited? |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
| You probably mean well, but unless you can imbricate data results that utilize quantifiable, verifiable, and targeted methodologies, results of your research will be suspect. On second thought, after so much hubbub over recruiters, agencies, and agents in the recent past, your stated goal seems highly disingenuous. |
I appreciate both of your concerns about this study. I would also be happy to share with both of you the results of the study and the final thesis when it is complete.
As for the insincerity of my goal, my thesis is merely a way to present data about the field of recruiting in China. Again, I would love to pass along the final thesis. |
Why share with just two members? Perhaps more of us would be willing to help you if you vowed to provide a link to the PDF of your final study results. Perhaps you could also estimate when we might expect to see said results. 
Also: I am sure we would all like to know if your survey has any relation to a similar survey we were recently asked to participate in:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?p=1175386&highlight=#1175386 - this one was more general about ESL worldwide, not just China. Are you at the University of Colorado well? |
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Mellow Fellow
Joined: 07 Oct 2014
Posts: 52
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 8:28 am Post subject: |
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I would not trust any survey - especially about recruiters if we don't know who is taking the survey and why.
I will play devil's advocate for a few minutes here. Let's say I was a recruiter whose reputation is not good and I notice my business dying off.
In desperation I decide to run a poll at a huge ESL forum where only I can see the real results. After a month I publish any results I want citing that "5,000 ESL & TEFL Teacher From ESLCafe.com" cooperated (maybe only 30 people here actually participated).
I could say that "80% of the teachers at eslcafe.com said hey can trust recruiters to find them good jobs and not to be cheated"
So in reality, it is possible this could be a similar ruse, and none of us would ever know. Does the survey host care to identify himself/herself? |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 10:20 am Post subject: |
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what does it really matter, answer it or not.
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| I could say that "80% of the teachers at eslcafe.com said hey can trust recruiters to find them good jobs and not to be cheated" |
figures never lie but liars can figure
certainly don't need a survey to say that.
under nationality list Woodstock Nation |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Mellow Fellow wrote: |
I would not trust any survey - especially about recruiters if we don't know who is taking the survey and why.
I will play devil's advocate for a few minutes here. Let's say I was a recruiter whose reputation is not good and I notice my business dying off.
In desperation I decide to run a poll at a huge ESL forum where only I can see the real results. After a month I publish any results I want citing that "5,000 ESL & TEFL Teacher From ESLCafe.com" cooperated (maybe only 30 people here actually participated).
I could say that "80% of the teachers at eslcafe.com said hey can trust recruiters to find them good jobs and not to be cheated"
So in reality, it is possible this could be a similar ruse, and none of us would ever know. Does the survey host care to identify himself/herself? |
I'm suspicious too, but calling Dave's a 'huge site' is hyperbolic. It may be the most popular, but it would take ten years to get 5,000 of us members to take such a survey. Just view any post count to see how many people visit this forum.
Are you saying they can just lie? Well, yes, they certainly can. Why then, should they conduct a bogus survey at all? They can just go ahead and say whatever they likes about ESL teachers and a survey without ever conducting a survey at all.
So I think the person requesting a survey is sincere. The question is will his survey benefit us, or just 'help him graduate' ? - As he says. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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The OP's survey is flawed to begin with, so its validity and value are questionable. For example, in terms of demographics, it omits the following key questions about the respondent's background and experience:
- marital status and household composition
- salary level (within a range)
- highest level of education and its relevancy to TESOL or education
- completion of a TESOL credential, if any
- number of years of TESOL experience prior to China
- current TESOL situation (e.g., teaching young children, high school, language school, Chinese university, foreign (Anglophone-style) university, study abroad program, private teaching, volunteer with a non-profit...)
The ambiguous and vague questions below are also problematic in that they assume the respondent has knowledge of the salaries of other teaching positions (positions teaching what?). What's missing is the option to answer "I don't know." Plus, if anything, these questions should specify the comparisons are to peers at the same teaching level as the respondent (if that's the implication). And what about benefits---don't they count for anything?
"7. How would you describe your income in China compared to other teaching positions?"
"8. How would you describe your income in China compared to other FOREIGN teacher teaching positions?"
Also...
"15. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being the lowest, 10 being the highest, how confident are you that you understand the teaching requirements in China?
Requirements to obtain a proper work visa? Or the varied teaching requirements set by China's many employers? Moreover, a scale of 1-10 is way too broad---1-4 makes more sense for such a general question. Plus, the values should be defined (e.g., 1=not at all, 2=a little confident, 3=somewhat confident, 4=very confident).
"17. On a scale of 1-10, 1 being the lowest, 10 being the highest, how confident are you that you understand the educational system in China?"
Which educational system? K-12 or higher ed? Again, a scale of 1-4 makes more sense with the values defined (e.g., 1=not at all, 2=a little confident, 3=somewhat confident, 4=very confident).
There are more of these undefined, broad scales of 1-10. They're difficult to evaluate and therefore, will be impossible to both qualify and quantify.
"29. What was the main reason you choose to come to China to teach?"
Does this question relate to teachers expecting to head to China for work? Or is it relevant to teachers already in China? Is/was? Choose/chose?
There are other issues with the survey. Anyway, don't count on it to have any impact on teacher recruitment; the OP obviously meant it to be an incentive for people to complete the survey. Whether the survey responses help get the OP through his/her MA in International Studies program is another matter. |
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water rat
Joined: 30 Aug 2014
Posts: 1098
Location: North Antarctica
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| Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2014 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| The Rat thanks The Cat. Well done, Soul Sister. Excellent post. |
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dstaats1
Joined: 27 Feb 2013
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2014 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you all for your concern with my survey.
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Whether the survey responses help get the OP through his/her MA in International Studies program is another matter. |
Brief background on my research and survey:
I realize now I could have been a bit more formal posting it here on the forum. It has just been a bit challenging working with this survey and obtaining responses. I initially wanted to collect 300 responses from teachers, but quickly found that it was very difficult to attain that number. I was working with one of the directors at my university to help me work through my data and to understand what is acceptable, both for thesis approval and for satisfactory data that actually have results that have implications in the field.
I messaged over 500 teachers in China through social networks, posted on Dave’s ESL café in the past, and posted on other forums on various social media outlets including Facebook, Linkd In, and Google+. On top of that I solicited surveys at foreign establishments in my city of Hangzhou. I also passed them onto several colleagues. After all of this work I received 60 responses. The completion rate was so incredibly low I had to sacrifice the 300 survey responses I initially wanted and settle for what do I need for my thesis to be approved.
Now, I recently have contacted the other director of my program and I now need 100 responses for my thesis approval. But these 100 responses along side the agency interviews I have completed should be sufficient data. I cannot tell you how many colleagues I have spoken to that are not aware of how agencies operate.
Implications in the field:
To present data and to say that there will be absolutely no implications in the field would be wrong. Right? If (just for example) I find that almost all agencies are skimming money from the teacher they have employed, wouldn’t that effect how you choose to come abroad and teach in China?
| nomad soul wrote: |
| Anyway, don't count on it to have any impact on teacher recruitment; the OP obviously meant it to be an incentive for people to complete the survey. |
Like nomad soul, so valiantly pointed out the flaws in my survey. I am well aware of these issues. But I am too far-gone to go back and fix the survey. Since, I stated before that it has been incredibly difficult to obtain responses.
However, to say the survey will not yield any data and results to complete the thesis would be wrong. There are several questions that allow for qualitative data to be assessed.
Also, some problems that were pointed out are a matter of how the data is displayed in the final piece.
Here is a quick google search to show this: See Likert Scale/Slider Scale
https://www.checkmarket.com/2012/08/likert_v_sliderscales/
And What was the main reason you choose to come to China to teach?"
Does this question relate to teachers expecting to head to China for work? Or is it relevant to teachers already in China? Is/was? Choose/chose?
Regardless of chose/choose—If a teacher is in China for a different reason other than teaching, doesn’t that say something? Is there a correlation between the reason why and whether they have used an agency?
These are just a couple of ways this survey can still be utilized.
I appreciate the help and conversation revolved around my survey. And I thank anyone that has or will take the survey!
Background of myself:
My name is Dustin Staats. I have taught abroad for a couple of years in China and Korea. I am currently working at a non-profit in DC, working with immigrant families and students. And like I said, I am still working on my graduate school degree. I would be happy to pass along and post the final piece for everyone when I complete it. According to my timeline, it is set to be completed in December. |
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