Job Discussion Forums

[kev7161]

Hi all,

I have something happening more and more frequently and it is the syndrome of absent students. Now, I'm not talking about one or two that may (or may not) be ill but large quantities. Yesterday, I had 8 students out of 21 missing. A couple of weeks ago, it was 10 out of 41 missing. In one of my Senior Two classes, I have the same half dozen kids missing all the time. Of course, I realize most of these kids are skipping my class because they either don't like me or don't like English . . . or both.

So, I take this problem to the director of our department, but not much has been done about it. If a student doesn't want to learn English or come to my class, then that is fine with me. However, I don't want a student to come and go whenever he pleases. I've taken attendance and given the names to that classes "head" teacher, talked to the director, ask the attending kids where the missing ones are ("they died" is a popular response) - - but it does no good. Also, our school has a lot of extra-curricular activities, which I applaud. They probably shouldn't take place during regular class times though. Some of these missing kids are off to dance rehearsals for an upcoming program or playing in a basketball tournament or in the TV lab recording something or another for some upcoming event. Some are sleeping in their dorm room.

The biggest problem is their final grade. If they don't come to class and do the in-class work and take part in the conversations/discussions/Q&A sessions/etc., then they will do poorly on their tests and will receive a failing grade from me (some will do poorly regardless, but still . . . ). I WANT them to do well but I'm also concerned how that will reflect on me as a teacher when all these "F"s are being posted. Or does it matter? Does anyone at my school care? Am I making too much of this? Aaaaarrrggghhh! My head hurts.

Does anyone else have this strange phenomenon?

[nolefan]

Got the same problem with some of my classes, mainly the business majors.

I have 10 out of 23 kids show up most of the time and I tried real hard to get them there but they are not interested in English. I spoke about it with my dean and other teachers and they said that the Business majors were lazy They just left it to that!

After 3 weeks of trying to get them to class, I decided not to give a rat's Arse about it!!!! I have a few kids in there that genuinely want to learn and I'd rather deal with just them....

As far as the grade, I will give them the lowest possible grade (D or 60%) if they don't show up otherwise I need to test them again in teh beginning of the next semester...no way, jose!!! I don't feel good about doing that but I cannot find an alternative. The last think I want is to be police my class around, fail some kids and have the school pass them.....

If the school does not care, why should I?

[anthyp]

Hmm glad to see it's not just me. I used to toss kids pretty regularly for sleeping, talking over me, etc., so I guess they've learned not to show up if they're not in the mood for a lesson. Do you find the classes much easier to manage with all those absent students? It doesn't seem to be a problem that the other teachers here have to deal with, either, because whenever I peek into another classroom I always see a sea of smiling Chinese faces (well many of them are asleep, and very few are smiling, but you get the point). I think you should just give them whatever grades you can live with. Bring on the D-'s!

[arioch36]

Check out the post "Mystery students" on the general discussion forum. Senior students are not expected to be in class the spring semester. They are supposed to be out looking for jobs. Most of them will no longer live at the school. The four year students have to return for graduation, and to give their thesis. For those interested in higher study, they took that test already, in November I believe.

Often, only the students too lazy to look for work are left at the school (senior year). If they are not seniors, then they must be in class (five absences gives you the right to fail them)

[kev7161]

Actually, we are a private school and kids are not allowed to leave campus. I don't teach the Senior 3 kids this semester, only the Senior One and Two. No, my missing kids are somewhere on campus (more than likely sleeping in their dorm rooms or doing those "extra-curricular" things I mentioned . . . or doing "extra-curricular" things of their own . . . 'wink', 'wink').

[lagerlout2006]

This is unprofessional I guess but the less students in class the better.IMO.

None is a nice number.

But I also hate when they waltz in halfway through and start yapping to their friends about what they were doing--ruining what was a reasonable class. Nothing I can think of pisses me off more than that.

[anthyp]

Eh, maybe it's unprofessional but it's true as hell. When the class sizes are so large I don't mind that so many kids don't bother showing up. And my largest class is maybe 40, I don't know how the rest of you do it.

[kev7161]

Actually, if a kid is late to my class, he or she stops at the door and says: "May I come in?" (I love it, very polite). I usually say "No." (if I am still taking role or haven't really started the lesson yet, then I let them come on in). Then they can go off and do whatever they want.

Teachers in our school are fined if we are late to or miss a class so I am always on time - - I expect the same from my students. And I too don't mind having less students, but I just don't want them to be able to show up whenever they feel like it.

[Roger]

The more amazing fract for me is that our Chinese employers NEVER instruct us on how to deal with problems; maybe they don't respect us.
Anyway, I have learnt from my various American buddies that telling students the classroom etiquette and laws is of paramount importance; and in fact, this is true!

I also learnt to monitor their attendance; alright, so I have to read aloud up to 40 names or their numbers, and see whether anyone responds. BNo, I won't allow a Chinese person to fill in my attendance sheet; I don't trust them!
At my university, we have lots of VISITORS to our classrooms; these guys come and go as they please. It's difficult to remember those faces that you should remember, and these students know it!

I caught not a few that had invalid exdcuses for being absent; some come with black rings under their eyes, and explaining to me they were up half of the night playing computer games.
Some oversleep so long they can't make it to class.

To my surprise, 3 weeks agoI received from the head of the foreign language department a (Chinese) list of my students, and I am supposed to grade their writing and their performance in listening and speaking. It transpired that my uni has all along expected me to monitor their attendance.

I also demand WRITTEN EXCUSES, and lo and behold, I was given a few such notes STAMPED (in red) by some office at the university.
Which goes a long way to explaining that the schools here do have established rules and procedures...

Just why they never inform us FT's is the big mystery to me!

[shenyanggerry]

I usually get 10% attendance from my English majors. About 80% is the norm for regular International Trade Ss. My 2 plus 2 Ss (two years here, two years at a western university) have about a 10% appearance rate.

I ran an oral mid-term last week. I got to meet many of my 2 plus 2's Ss for the first time. About 40% of them didn't show. I'd passed the word ahead of time. You want to retake the exam, get the Foreign Languages department to contact me. They are the ones that will approve any excuse. The non 2 plus 2 Ss were all there.

[Clancy]

Let us distinguish between English majors and non-English majors taking English courses.

The attendence rate is different depending upon the individual major.
Let me quote from a recent email sent to our Dean:

[anthyp]

Hmm I've noticed the attendence rate seems to be dropping for most of my classes as the year winds to a close. Kind of like back home, eh? I teach freshmen by the way (I don't know the exact term for them, sorry). But the other day, my last before the May holiday began, somebody barged into my classroom and counted up the students present, then started yelling at them. There were maybe 19 out of 40 students there that day and I guess he wanted to know where the hell everybody was. "Good question," thought I. Then he left after offering me his sincerest apologies. The rest of us ended up having a very good class, anyway.

[kev7161]

At the risk of sounding redundant:

If the kid does not want to be there, then I don't want him to be there. BUT, he can't come and go as he pleases. Next year, I plan on making some significant changes. I'm going home in the summer so I can snag some actual role-taking apparatus along with a role/grade book that I ASSUMED would be here for me this year. Also, I plan on making some forms that I can fill out daily and give to the director of our department. Maybe there are rules here at this school and maybe there aren't, but I am going to establish some kind of order in my classroom when it comes to this matter (or die trying?). I don't know why this is such an issue for me, but it seems rather disrespectful to me as a teacher (in other words, the kids don't miss their other classes - - or don't get away with it - - unless they are REALLY sick!).

[Ace]

It seems I have a much better rate of attendance than I had given myself credit for...rarely more than 3 absentees out of 40 or 50. I just call out the names of the previous absentees now and see if they're regularly missing. (50/50, so I guess everyone can have a sleep in once in a while)

What concerns me is the grading system...10% for attendance (really?) and 10% for term-work...our college insists on a 60% pass mark, and likes about 6 students per class to get over 75% for a 'scholarship' chance. This means the absolute dregs have to get 60's and I only have another 15 marks to distinguish the rest (composition class). It is evidently unthinkable to fail students at this school...student failures equal poor teaching anyway, seems to be the theoretical equation...China really is full of bullsh*t isn't it!

The recent school speech competitions were classic - worthy of a separate post!

out of a possible score of 10...

1 mark for appearance
(the Dean of the English Dept stood up at the end and made a speech in which she laboured the necessity of polished shoes and nice clothes - some boys had worn suits - while SHE was wearing a TRACK-SUIT!!

2 marks for 'response'
Originally we were to ask them an impromptu question at the end, but then they cancelled this for time constraints (thank god).

2 marks for content
2 marks for 'fluency'
3 marks for pronunciation

Believe me, at least four of the speeches were unintelligible, so I had little idea about the content, let alone the pronunciation, but get this!

Just as I was about to give the first girl 7, the judge beside me informed me that SEVEN WAS THE LOWEST POSSIBLE SCORE!!!

Even after giving every student 1 for appearance and 2 for 'response', it was agony trying to figure out where to award the balance of the minimum seven points...

They don't really care, do they? I just sign anything written in Chinese, and pass everybody in my classes!

[7969]

not the teacher's fault. lay the blame where it belongs, with the students. at some point they have to take responsibility for what they do. noone babysat me when i was at university, and i won't do it for students here. don't show up for lessons and fail the test - too bad.

everything i've read above i have seen in my classes in my short stay (4 months) in china. i focus my attention on the students who want to learn and who show up and exhibit even a minimum amount of effort. the ones who choose to not show up, sleep, read comics etc are on their own.....