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Forest Song
Joined: 03 Oct 2014
Posts: 12
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 Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:20 am Post subject: 51 / Lots of experience / Is this doable? |
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Hello-
This is my first post here. I would be grateful to receive any advice from other members. I am 51, with 20 years experience teaching English in Asia, and I am interested in finding a teaching position in Japan early next summer. Is this doable?
I started out in Japan in 1989 and very much enjoyed teaching there at an eikaiwa for five years. Since then I have taught mostly in Thailand, and mostly at the university level.
Anyway, I just have an unrelated BA, and I'm not expecting to work at a university in Japan, but will my age be a big problem applying for eikaiwa positions? I do not need to be in one of the major cities. In fact, I really like living in provincial cities. I used to have no difficulties speaking Japanese for everyday life, and I think it would come back to me quickly. I'm male, pleasant, friendly, and look and seem younger than my age. I'm from the U.S.
I know ESL in Japan has gone through a lot since I taught there, as has the world in general. Yet I would really like to return.
Thank you very much for any information on the prospects of finding a position on the ground in Japan.
-Forest Song
Last edited by Forest Song on Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:45 am; edited 2 times in total |
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rtm
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1003
Location: US
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 4:17 am Post subject: Re: 51 / Lots of experience / Is this doable? |
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| Forest Song wrote: |
| Anyway, I just have an unrelated BA, and I'm not expecting to work at a university in Japan, but will my age be a big problem applying for eikaiwa positions? I do not need to be in one of the major cities. In fact, I really like living in provincial cities. I used to have no difficulties speaking Japanese for everyday life, and I think it would come back to me quickly. I'm male, tall, pleasant, friendly, look and seem younger than my age, and I still have a lot of my blond hair. I'm from the U.S. |
I think you'd have as good of a shot as anyone. Some employers might not like your age, but others would appreciate it. Your experience would be a plus to many employers, especially if you can come across in your interviews as experienced but not necessarily set in your ways, and willing to adapt. I think you'd probably have more luck with eikaiwa than ALT positions. |
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thomthom
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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I think you have a good chance of finding some 230,000 Yen teaching position at an eikaiwa, particularly if you are indeed prepared to go somewhere provincial. What they might ask you in your interview is what everyone on this forum is no doubt tempted to ask: how come, at 51, you want to do this now?
To be honest I think if I were an employer I might be a bit suspicious of anyone over the age of 40 who is still happy to live on about £15k/$22k in one of the most expensive countries in the world. Also, you don't have an MA - how about a CELTA? I think anyone much over 30 who is still doing the ESL thing ought to have at least one of the two, really.. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:08 am Post subject: |
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| thomthom wrote: |
What they might ask you in your interview is what everyone on this forum is no doubt tempted to ask: how come, at 51, you want to do this now?
To be honest I think if I were an employer I might be a bit suspicious of anyone over the age of 40 who is still happy to live on about £15k/$22k... |
I don't agree with you at all.
He started TEFL'ing in 1989. What do you mean by, 'How come, at 51, you want to do this now?"?
Next, you do not speak for me in wondering why, at beyond 40, he is still happy to live on Yen 250,000 a month. And "happy" is your word, not his.
People want to eat and have a roof over their heads. People have to work for a living to get that, whether it's serving cafe lattes at Starbucks, digging up roads, or teaching EFL in Japan.
I don't know where you get your concepts from, man. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 10:48 am Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| thomthom wrote: |
What they might ask you in your interview is what everyone on this forum is no doubt tempted to ask: how come, at 51, you want to do this now?
To be honest I think if I were an employer I might be a bit suspicious of anyone over the age of 40 who is still happy to live on about £15k/$22k... |
I don't agree with you at all.
He started TEFL'ing in 1989. What do you mean by, 'How come, at 51, you want to do this now?"?
Next, you do not speak for me in wondering why, at beyond 40, he is still happy to live on Yen 250,000 a month. And "happy" is your word, not his.
People want to eat and have a roof over their heads. People have to work for a living to get that, whether it's serving cafe lattes at Starbucks, digging up roads, or teaching EFL in Japan.
I don't know where you get your concepts from, man. |
I know many a 40+ individual who'd jump at the chance to make this kind of money, if only it didn't involve moving overseas. |
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Forest Song
Joined: 03 Oct 2014
Posts: 12
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:34 am Post subject: |
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Thank you to all for the feedback. Answering your question, Thomthom, this is who I am. This is what I have always done, and it works for me. I know I could have gone back and gotten a master's at some point, but I never really wanted to go through that. I like creative writing, but really don't like writing academic papers under pressure. Also I never much cared for the idea of working at an international school with the very upper crust of society anyway. I did move back to the States for five years and got a high paying job during that time, but quit and moved back to teach in Asia because life in my home culture had little interest for me after living in other cultures for so long. I enjoy teaching English. People enjoy studying with me. So, I stayed. I'm still here.
Last edited by Forest Song on Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:45 am; edited 3 times in total |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Maitoshi wrote: |
| I know many a 40+ individual who'd jump at the chance to make this kind of money, if only it didn't involve moving overseas. |
Thomthom's assumptions, ignorance and prejudices are offensive. He, or she, is in need of some serious education and enlightenment.
Too old to TEFL?
Give yourself a kick in the ass, Thomthom. |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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The only person too old for TEFL is the person who tells him or herself, "I'm too old for TEFL."
To OP, you know in your heart that your students benefit from your wisdom and patience. These are qualities that only increase with age. Anyone who doesn't see that is too young to know better, so we should be patient with them 
Last edited by Maitoshi on Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:04 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Wed Oct 08, 2014 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| OP, to answer your question, "Yes! Very much so." |
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thomthom
Joined: 20 May 2011
Posts: 125
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Shimokitazawa wrote: |
| Maitoshi wrote: |
| I know many a 40+ individual who'd jump at the chance to make this kind of money, if only it didn't involve moving overseas. |
Thomthom's assumptions, ignorance and prejudices are offensive. He, or she, is in need of some serious education and enlightenment.
Too old to TEFL?
Give yourself a kick in the ass, Thomthom. |
Woah there! When did I ever come anywhere near saying "you're too old to TEFL"?? I think you all got a little too over-defensive, there (In a way which might suggest, ironically, and dare I say it, that you DO actually have a little bit of a hang up about doing ESL. Or at least you're quick to assume people are criticising you).
In my case I'm 28 and ideologically I couldn't be any less driven by materialism or status, I'm totally driven by cultural experience and not at all by tradition. The prospect of keeping moving and living in as many countries as possible is tremendously appealing and that's how I think my life will potentially pan out.
HOWEVER, let's review what I said without sensationalism for a second. (A) if I were an employer, I might want to see certification/qualifications from someone who has chosen to teach ESL for 2 decades. Controversial? No, I don't think so! If you want to have an okay salary and self respect as an ESL teacher, let's have some standards. Anyone with a BA degree can teach in Asia and the majority of people have a BA degree these days. An employer may want to see added credentials for from someone who has done it most of their lives, beyond sheer experience. Especially given that otherwise, many kids schools tend to prefer younger teachers (not my idea; just a reality)
(B) I said I might be curious about someone in their 40s+ who is prepared to work on such a low salary. Okay, bad wording, perhaps I came about this the wrong angle: I should have emphasised just how expensive Japan is and how littlle upwards mobility there is for ESL teachers WITH qualifications, let alone without. ESL salaries in Japan are at a level, relative to cost of living, which means many teachers lead a lifestyle similar to a university student. 230k in Tokyo is like an entry-level graduate job in London, a city with a similar cost of living. Now, nothing wrong with that, but you can barely pay for a 50cc scooter or a pension if you're earning 230k before tax/health in a city as expensive as Tokyo or Osaka, or if you can, you're not eating out or having vacations very often. As I said, I'm truly not driven by money, I can't emphasise it enough, but I would expect to be doing better than that after a 20 year career in teaching. In fact, with 15 years or so left to retire, you may in fact NEED to be doing better than that. It's not an ideological debate. Call me an ageist, commodity-obsessed, capitalist pig dog! |
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Maitoshi
Joined: 04 May 2014
Posts: 718
Location: 何処でも
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| Posted: Thu Oct 09, 2014 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| If the older chaps stick to living in the sticks, the salary can do a lot more. You're definitely right about eating out and travel, though. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 1:46 am Post subject: |
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I have heard of a few universities where people with a BA can get a job but just part-time.
Age and prior experience does look good.
Chiba University used to hire people like that, but for large writing classes.
Another one is at Nihon University but your CV would have to look good with experience teaching medical and scientific English. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
I have heard of a few universities where people with a BA can get a job but just part-time.
Age and prior experience does look good.
Chiba University used to hire people like that, but for large writing classes.
Another one is at Nihon University but your CV would have to look good with experience teaching medical and scientific English. |
Yes, that's right.
I also have met people in their 50s and 60s who have been hired at universities part-time and some have only had B.A. degrees.
The guy I know who was hired in his 50s had a doctorate and 20 years TESOL experience at the university level both in the US and Korea, Taiwan, Thailand.
And if you're on the part-time university instructor circuit in the Kanto area, you'll run into gaijin tenured teachers at various universities who only hold a B.A. degree. However, they were hired 20 years ago. |
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mitsui
Joined: 10 Jun 2007
Posts: 1562
Location: Kawasaki
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 7:51 am Post subject: |
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It is not common as more people have MAs and there is a push for more teachers with doctorates.
The place in Kanagawa that accepts BAs does pay the teachers less than those with a MA.
I know one teacher who has 16 koma.
I think after the earthquake was a good time to get work since many people quit.
However there are calls to get rid of these teachers, and just have people who have MAs.
At Chiba University, writing classes could have up to 80 students.
That is a lot of grading. |
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Shimokitazawa
Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 458
Location: Saigon, Vietnam
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| Posted: Fri Oct 10, 2014 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| mitsui wrote: |
It is not common as more people have MAs and there is a push for more teachers with doctorates.
The place in Kanagawa that accepts BAs does pay the teachers less than those with a MA.
I know one teacher who has 16 koma.
I think after the earthquake was a good time to get work since many people quit.
However there are calls to get rid of these teachers, and just have people who have MAs.
At Chiba University, writing classes could have up to 80 students.
That is a lot of grading. |
Yeah, I agree, it's not normal. However, you do run into guys who only hold B.A. degrees and they are permanent, regular teachers at the Associate Professor rank. Crazy.
I knew a guy at Chiba University who only held a B.A. degree and was tenured. He's now retired in Hawaii.
But these are guys from a different era. If you were on the ball 25 years ago, you could land a great job with a great salary and benefits with only a B.A. degree.
Still, most tenured positions, and contract positions, only require a M.A. degree.
If I were a newbie or stuck in eikaiwa, I'd run to a master's degree. The difference between life as an eikaiwa / ALT grunt and a university instructor (contract or tenured) is night and day.
Life is so much easier and pleasant working in a university - usually. |
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