Job Discussion Forums

[ESL104]

Been weighing this one up in my head and still not sure of the best path forward.

'Common wisdom' on the internet seems to suggest getting an employer, having them do the Z visa, and not setting off for China until you have it is the 'best' way forward.

But I've also read people commonly have problems with their schools, and changing your visa so you can work at another employer if you have to do a runner is a pain.

If you arrived on a tourist visa, you could at least check the place out before signing a contract. Might make it easier to get some jobs which require immediate starts too if you're already physically in China. And if two weeks in, your boss is a nightmare or you have some horrific split schedule etc, you can easily part ways.

I've already got savings in the bank so if I arrived in China I could 'afford' to spend time looking round for a decent job, I wouldn't be arriving with 2000 yuan to my name and need to take the first thing out there. I wouldn't get airfare reinbursement I'm assuming, but I'm currently in Thailand anyway and so the plane ticket is cheap (like, 800 RMB).

Thoughts?

[roadwalker]

If you are already living in Asia, you may as well pay a visit to China and check out places you think you might want to live (or at least could live with). On the other hand, unless you have some kind of resident status in Thailand or elsewhere, you'll most likely need to return to your home country to get legal working status in China, by getting a work (z) visa at your home country's consulate. Hong Kong z-visa runs are still being reported but it's not as common as before and may be on the way out. Another thing to consider is that visas and visa renewals are expensive, especially if you're from the US. ($140 a pop).

There are nightmare jobs, but a little investigation should land you with a decent school, especially if you have decent qualifications and experience. Ask to speak or email with a current or former teacher, use this site's search function, wikipedia, and any other research you can think of.

Legal working status is tied to one employer, so you really need to try and find a place you can deal with the first time, and just hope you aren't very unlucky. But by offering you sponsorship to a working visa, a school is putting some skin in the game. They will want you to succeed with them. If you work with less, the school could get fined but you can't blame the school to get out of your own fine and possible deportation. If the school asks you to arrive on a tourist visa and doesn't like you or their situation changed and now they don't want to hire you, be sure to pick up a nice parting gift and hey, thanks for playing... Good luck.

[Non Sequitur]

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=91394&highlight=checklist

Get a Z and then due the due diligence items suggested by multiple posters in this thread.
Best

[Voyeur]

There are advantages to coming in person first. However, you need to do your due diligence on the province and city you want to work in. Some areas will let you go to Hong Kong to get your Z Visa, but others are adamant that you return to your home country. This can be expensive.

[ESL104]

Alright - in the interests of maybe saving me a trip and getting some information from people who might know best - what is Shenzhen like to live in?

It's not that I've got an offer there but I do have a Chinese friend who lives there and he says we can house share. Says it'll be about 1800 RMB each for a decent place in the city, or maybe about 1000 RMB each for a not-so-great place. But he raves about the place and reckons I should go there rather than Bejing/Shanghai.

Specifically -

1)Is it possible (i.e. likely) to get training centre/privates work in the evenings and weekends after the day job is over? Looking on echinacities it sorta feels like most training centre work is in Bejing or Shanghai - plus of course Bejing has that 'thebejinger.com' site so you could easily find private students - Shenzhen has nothing like that that I'm aware of though it's possible I'm just missing it. Looks like a 'big' city so logically you'd have thought there was decent extra work avaliable but internet searches don't really show that to be the case.

2) On that note - I'm wondering if I'm taking the right approach with job searching. I've been firing off applications online and normally end up dealing with recruitment agents. In Thailand it's pretty common when looking for a job to physically go to the places and ask them if they have any vacancies avaliable. Does that approach work in China or just virtually everyone use the internet when looking for part time or full time teachers?

Sorry for the sidetrack but I don't want to clutter up the forum by making yet another thread.

[kungfuman]

There are some benefits to working on a tourist or business visa.

A friend works at a kids training center for 3 weeks now. Hates it. Can't blame him.

He has a tourist visa good for 90 days.

Asked me about quitting and going to a better paying job.
.
Told him he has no legal obligation to the current employer as they have not sponsored him for a real working visa.

Sweet he says.

He's gonna quit soon

[ESL104]

[mysterytrain]

[roadwalker]

[Shanghai Noon]

Last I heard, Shanghai SAFEA would allow people with Canadian, American, UK, Irish, Australian or New Zealand passports to apply for their Z visa in Hong Kong. Non-native speakers who want to work here must go back to their home country.

[ESL104]

I'm from the UK so that would be pretty decent for me if that was the case - especially as Shanghai is pretty high up on my list of 'cities I want to live in'.

Can anyone else confirm that?

[ESL104]

The more I think about this the more I feel inclined to say a tourist visa is actually a better option full stop. Don't everyone jump on me at once, but...

- When you work out the hourly of any full time job out there which provides a Z visa, it completely sucks compared to part time work.

- You don't get as much influence over your schedule if you work full time for a primary employer.

Uni job: 16 hours a week for 38 weeks of the year. 608 hours for 5000RMB+ apartment (let's say that's worth 2500) for 10 months of the year (75000), plus 10000 airfare. 85000/608 = 140 RMB an hour

Training centre: 15000 a month for 40 total hours a week. Paid time off negligable. 180000RMB/2160 hours (assuming 180 hours a month). Hourly rate: 83 RMB an hour. If they pay airfare (most do to be fair) you can probably bump that up to closer to 90RMB an hour.

Public schools seems to fall somewhere in between these two from what I can see.

But as anyone looking at any job website in China can tell you, pretty much all part time work pays better than either of these. Plus a huge advantage - you get to make your own schedule which will allow you to much more easily block hours together. If you work at a uni and you have one class at 8am and one class at 2pm, that kinda sucks for getting extra work.

Like, I'm seeing at least 3 or 4 adverts for kindergarten part time teachers in morning or early afternoons flying around paying between 180-250 an hour. And the training centres always seem to advertise at between 160-240 an hour for evening work.

Even with the bare minimum of effort and application you could get 4 hours work a day for 5 days a week. With 22 working days a month and assuming an average 200RMB hourly rate, thats 17600 RMB tax free...for working 20 hours a week. All of which is possible because you're not tied down in the daytime hours with a job that comparitively pays little compared to what you could get freelancing and you get to choose your own schedule (by accepting or rejecting work) to maximise time efficiency. Needless to say if you got lucky with some morning and afternoon jobs, or found a training centre willing to give you loads of hours, you could do substantially better than this figure if you're prepared to work a lot of hours.

Has anyone ever tried this? Go to somewhere like Guangzhou or Shenzhen where visa runs to HK won't be a nightmare and a huge cost, then send out applications to the part time jobs in the area and also email recruiters letting them know you're avaliable at xxx times for xxx an hour?

OK it's illegal, but so is doing private work on a Z visa anyway, no? So what difference does it make really?

[Voyeur]

Despite the technicalities, I believe you are more likely to face more severe consequences if busted teaching on a tourist visa than if you are caught teaching privates on a Z. Teaching on the F Visa might fall somewhere in the middle. Of course that is just my impression.

If you teach on a tourist visa you might do okay so long as you don't keep much money in a local account, where it can be easily confiscated. And live lightly off the land without investing too much in an apartment, furniture, appliances, etc. since you can be deported any time.

[3701 W.119th]

You can definitely go to HK for your Z Visa, from Shanghai, if you're a UK or USA passport holder (I know 2 teachers personally who did it in late-August. One from Britain, the other from the US).

I wouldn't like to be in that position myself, but it is certainly doable.

[ESL104]

EDIT: double post