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Chinaski
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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 Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:40 pm Post subject: Opinions of Salary Expectations Please |
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Hi all,
I am considering teaching in Saudi, the UAE, or maybe Oman or Qatar in the next year to two years and would be very grateful for any opinions on a salary range I could expect.
In short...
-10 years teaching overall in Thailand (1.5 years), South Korea (7),
and now the Middle East (1+)
- MEd-TESL (gained year 8 of teaching +/-)
- US teaching license (grades 5-12, content: ESL)
- Celta will be completed within 3-6 months
- MBA will be completed next year
- Have taught almost 7 years at the university level
- Absolutely love teaching writing (and know it *almost* top to bottom)
To be frank, I would (at this point) only consider moving to one of the above countries for about $65,000 USD+/- (in pocket) plus all bennies...as anything less would be a step down.
I love my job ( admin, fellow teachers, students) now, but always try to keep my eye a couple years down the road...
Many thanks,
Chinaski |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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20,000 SR a mointh ? In KSA ? Not many places paying that as a basic salary. If you got a univesrity job and worked in the summer holidays and overtime you MIGHT get that.
Have you looked at international schools ? Not sure that you would get that there either ! |
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Chinaski
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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^
Really? 
I heard Aramco direct hires and some military outfits offered some good cash.
A recruiter (Midwest I think it was) posted gigs for Aramco at $6-9,000 USD a month. Were they being creative and adding all pay+bennies in and dividing it by 12 months perhaps?
And ok,ok, I might consider $60,000 a year plus all bennies, but certainly not less. 
And I don't have international school teaching, so I probably couldn't expect more than about $36,000 USD a year + bennies there.
I'd also like to stay in the uni/corporate/military stream...
Chinaski |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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You have more chance of becoming a Cardinal than of getting a direct hire with ARAMCO.
Maybe Raytheon or Boose Allen. I tjhink your expoectations are too high. You have missed out on the Golden Era. That was about 30 years ago !
Looking at KFUPM etc, you might get 14.000 SR a month as starters and have a chance to supplement that by doing overtime and working in the summer vacation., |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:25 pm Post subject: Re: Opinions of Salary Expectations Please |
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| Chinaski wrote: |
-10 years teaching overall in Thailand (1.5 years), South Korea (7), and now the Middle East (1+)
- MEd-TESL (gained year 8 of teaching +/-)
- US teaching license (grades 5-12, content: ESL)
- Celta will be completed within 3-6 months
- MBA will be completed next year
- Have taught almost 7 years at the university level
- Absolutely love teaching writing (and know it *almost* top to bottom)
To be frank, I would (at this point) only consider moving to one of the above countries for about $65,000 USD+/- (in pocket) plus all bennies...as anything less would be a step down. |
According to the info you provided, you only have two (2) years of teaching experience post-MA, and unless your degree included a practical component, that's experience you gained while also lacking a CELTA or equivalent TEFL cert. Be aware this is how employers will likely count your experience when calculating your salary. |
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Allizwell
Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 54
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:00 am Post subject: |
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| Regarding current salary figures, I have some colleagues who teach at petrochemical plants and technical colleges in KSA and make just over SR 20K (and one doesn't have a related MA). This easily bested my last uni job (last year), which paid the average-for-an-MA-with-3+experience amount of 15K in KSA. These are first-hand facts. |
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Chinaski
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:45 am Post subject: |
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| scot47 wrote: |
| You have more chance of becoming a Cardinal than of getting a direct hire with ARAMCO. |
| Quote: |
| Maybe Raytheon or Boose Allen. I tjhink your expoectations are too high. You have missed out on the Golden Era. That was about 30 years ago ! |
Well, I definitely might have to take myself down a peg or two, salary expectation-wise. 
And thank you for the info re: Raytheon and Boose Allen; I'll put them both on my list.
| Quote: |
| Looking at KFUPM etc, you might get 14.000 SR a month as starters and have a chance to supplement that by doing overtime and working in the summer vacation., |
God, that is a terrible salary!
If I was going to work for that it would be better for me to enter into the international school stream and eventually be able to work in nice countries for almost as good (in the beginning) or (later) better money than that.
The reason I would consider the Middle East over other places is the salary and savings.
nomad soul wrote:
| Quote: |
| According to the info you provided, you only have two (2) years of teaching experience post-MA, and unless your degree included a practical component, that's experience you gained while also lacking a CELTA or equivalent TEFL cert. Be aware this is how employers will likely count your experience when calculating your salary. |
Thanks for the info..and reminding me. :p
I have been lamenting this fact, and I know it is a fact...
I wish I had done both the CELTA and MEd years ago, but just couldn't make it happen.
Allizwell wrote:
| Quote: |
| Regarding current salary figures, I have some colleagues who teach at petrochemical plants and technical colleges in KSA and make just over SR 20K (and one doesn't have a related MA). |
I think 20k is the amount I should realistically be shooting for if I wanted to make a change then.
| Quote: |
| This easily bested my last uni job (last year), which paid the average-for-an-MA-with-3+experience amount of 15K in KSA. These are first-hand facts. |
Now I'm not saying that 15K is bad, but it would just be a step down for me now.
I have a friend on 20k in Saudi now, and am friends with two other guys who worked there. One made about 20k, and the other made about 15k I think, but both know guys who are currently there making very good cash there...
And I really appreciate all of the input so far, even if I would love to hear how I would need to take along a shovel due to all the cash I would be making.
At the very least it introduces some further realism into the situation and makes me appreciate my current situation even more.
If anyone else can add anything I'd also be really happy to hear from them...
Chinaski |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:35 am Post subject: |
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| Allizwell wrote: |
| Regarding current salary figures, I have some colleagues who teach at petrochemical plants and technical colleges in KSA and make just over SR 20K (and one doesn't have a related MA). |
| Chinaski wrote: |
| I have a friend on 20k in Saudi now, and am friends with two other guys who worked there. One made about 20k, and the other made about 15k I think, but both know guys who are currently there making very good cash there... |
Assuming these guys aren't exaggerating about their pay, I'd suspect they probably have some desirable/special knowledge or skillset. For instance, I have an ex-US Air Force friend with specific technical certifications---training received when he served in the military. He also has a BA in History. Yet, because of his certifications, he's earning the equivalent of $6500 per month (exclusive of his free housing and other bennies) teaching ESP in Qatar at a technical institute. Ditto for an ex jarhead friend who landed a lucrative job with the Saudi government teaching English to military cadets. Another friend (non-military), with both an A.A. and technical certification in aviation mechanics as well as an MA in TEFL, recently has been getting a lot of interest from employers who like his aviation component. (Thanks to my revamping his resume/CV.  )
These high-paying opportunities aren't likely to be within the grasp of an MA holder with typical university-level teaching experience. So unless your experience in Asia included academic writing, EAP, curriculum design, etc., an expectation of anything close to 15k SAR per month isn't realistic. (That's factoring in your post-MA experience of two years and lack of a TEFL cert.) Plus, as Scot47 reminds us, salaries for EFL instructors have declined over the years. While at the same time, the better employers---those that hire directly---expect applicants to have a related MA, a CELTA or equivalent TEFL cert, and relevant teaching experience. |
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Chinaski
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 9:01 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| So unless your experience in Asia included academic writing, EAP, curriculum design, etc., an expectation of anything close to 15k SAR per month isn't realistic. |
Hi, thanks so much for your reply.
My masters is MEd-TESL, and I will have my Celta in 3-6 months.
Interestingly, I taught academic writing in Korea for two years (Integrated Writing & Paragraph and Essay Writing) and am now in an EAP program teaching writing as well (and have taught levels 1,2 and 4, so only not 3)...and have some experience with curriculum design.
I can teaching writing from sentences, clauses, simple, compound and complex sentences, to coordinating and subordinating conjuntions, etc, all the way from different types or paragraphs...until different types of essays.
I can take a student from a beginner writer up until the point that I send them on their way into an academic program with a bag of cookies.
God I love teaching writing. |
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meInst
Joined: 27 Sep 2012
Posts: 10
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| And thank you for the info re: Raytheon and Boose Allen; I'll put them both on my list. |
If you are interested in teaching for the military/DLI/ALC, why don't you apply to teach directly at Lackland Defense Language Institute English Language Center ?
BTW, Boose[sic] Allen moved the ESLers to a shell company years ago, so you'd be working for the shell company if you went in that direction. |
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Chinaski
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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^
Hi,
Thanks so much. I will check them out...
And thanks for the heads up on Boose Allen as well...
Chinaski |
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johnslat
Joined: 21 Jan 2003
Posts: 13859
Location: Santa Fe, New Mexico, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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Actually it's Booz Allen (Hamilton Inc.) - though I've often thought that in Saudi it should probably be "Booze Allen."
Regards,
John |
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Allizwell
Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 54
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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I can assure you, Nomad Soul, that the 20K-salary (and above) jobs do indeed exist for teachers with regular ol' uni backgrounds and no specialized quals. My colleagues "just" have standard prep-year quals (MA, certs, uni experience) and are asked to teach mostly ESP, which involves using texts such as Tech Talk and others. Since I have these quals as well, I myself interviewed for one of these positions recently and can confirm the salary amounts and the quals required.
The reason most people don't hear about these jobs is because they generally don't appear on the commonly seen job boards where you see mostly "unitrash" positions (haha). The petrochemical plants and technical colleges I mentioned earlier tend to be much smaller outfits than the average prep-year uni department, so when there are openings they are limited to just a handful or fewer. As a result, these institutions tend not to advertise open positions and instead recruit through word of mouth via current faculty members. The people I know who have these jobs got them through these avenues. They were in the right place at the right time -- some were working at other jobs in Saudi, others were brought in from abroad. That's the way it is. |
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Chinaski
Joined: 06 Apr 2011
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Allizwell wrote: |
| I can assure you, Nomad Soul, that the 20K-salary (and above) jobs do indeed exist for teachers with regular ol' uni backgrounds and no specialized quals. My colleagues "just" have standard prep-year quals (MA, certs, uni experience) and are asked to teach mostly ESP, which involves using texts such as Tech Talk and others. Since I have these quals as well, I myself interviewed for one of these positions |
When I lived in Korea my friends and I were making 2-3 times what most teachers made. When people became aware of it they almost always said it wasn't possible or that we were full of shit...
I respect people with more Saudi experience than me, and trust them when they tell me what average salaries are. I don't, however, trust them when they tell me that I (personally) can't do better than average.
Everywhere I go I have defied the averages, and would put money down that I will do it again if I move to Saudi.
One thing that always seems to stack the deck in my favor is that I take my time about things...and never look for jobs when I need them. I always look when I have a good deal already, and then only upgrade when it suits me.
It may not work this time, but then I won't move on (if not forced to through circumstance). I don't understand why this type of thinking gets under people's skin.
I think I went about asking things in a nice way, and just said, "If I can't make this, it's not worth it for me at this time..."
Chinaski |
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Allizwell
Joined: 04 Nov 2010
Posts: 54
Location: KSA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| You have the right attitude, and as a result will eventually go beyond "the average," I predict. We both know it can certainly be done. Good luck! |
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