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IchliebeHunde1492
Joined: 21 Dec 2013 Posts: 29
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:49 pm Post subject: Seriously, why can't SPANISH be the world's "lingua fra |
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I hope I've posted this in the appropriate category; Dave's ESL Cafe is really strict about postings and where they belong. This seems to be the best category to place this topic in, so I'll give it a go.
One issue I had in China (or actually, it would've happened anywhere in the world outside of Spain and Latin America!) is that I got tired of all the emphasis on English, English, English, English. Of course, the Chinese are aware that there are thousands of other languages in the world, but students mainly only care about learning English. In public schools, English is the only foreign language option (unlike in the U.S., where students can choose from a number of languages). If a Chinese wanted to learn an "exotic" language, in this case, Spanish, he would have to attend some sort of private school or go to evening/weekend classes. I may be wrong; I may have missed something while I was in China, but that was my observation.
In light of the frustration over so much emphasis on English, I ended up speaking a LITTLE Spanish in the Chinese classroom! Like, when handing out papers, I would sometimes say to one row, "Here you go," and then the next row, "Aquí tenéis," ignoring for a minute that vosotros se usa solamente en España. (But hey, the Spanish I speak IS from Spain, namely Madrid, because that's the español original.)
But back to the topic, I really do think it'd be better if Spanish were the lingua franca of the world. Please note I am not a native Spanish speaker; I didn't even learn Spanish until college. But here's why I think Spanish should be the "lingua franca" of the world instead of English:
a) It is very easy to learn in general. I picked up Spanish very quickly. The grammar is simple enough (except for the subjunctive mood ). But then again, I'm very good at languages in general, so I picked up Chinese very quickly while in China. So maybe "very easy to learn" is very subjective, especially when it comes to languages! But still, Spanish grammar is simple enough for most learners.
b) It is nearly 100% phonetic. You can look at any Spanish word and know how to pronounce it. You can hear any Spanish word without the text and still know how write it. English, however, is NOT a phonetic language. It is not written as it is spoken. We ESL teachers all know how much difficulty this causes for English learners. Wouldn't it be much easier if the world's lingua franca were actually a phonetic language?
c) By some counts, Spanish has MORE native speakers than English . However, this is very hard to prove, as many Hispanics, particularly in the U.S. and Puerto Rico, are bilingual - i.e. they grew up speaking both English and Spanish, so both are considered their "native language."
d) It's more fun teaching a non-native language! It just is. I guess because I have been through the same process as the learners. Even then, Spanish is so easy to pronounce (more on that later) that it's really not hard to achieve a "near-native" accent. I did have an Ecuadorian girl once ask me, "¿Es usted de España?"
e) Spanish is easy to pronounce, or at least learn to pronounce. Think about it - only FIVE vowel sounds exist in Spanish! How many vowel sounds exist in English? At least three times as many. Again, that creates difficulties for ESL learners, especially if their native language didn't have certain vowel sounds that English has. Same goes for consonants - I've heard that the "th" sound like in "thin" or "the" is impossible for ESL learners to produce unless they mastered that sound as a child. Okay, in Spain, they use the soft "th" sound, but not in Latin American Spanish. Shouldn't the world's lingua franca have as few vowel and consonant sounds as possible?
f) "Hot" (both literally and figuratively) vacation spots such as the Caribbean and Central/South America are in Spanish-speaking countries, needless to say. Those countries get visitors from all over the world, and they would all have a better time if they had had to learn Spanish as the lingua franca of the world.
If I could change one thing in the world with a magic wand, I would Spanish the lingua franca of the world instead of English, for all the reasons above. English does not make a good lingua franca because of its spelling and pronunciation difficulties. Heck, even NATIVE English speakers sometimes forget how to spell a complicated word! I remember when I was in school, we were like, "How do you spell _____?" "How many 's's are in ______?" So, if it's hard enough for native speakers to master, why the HECK did English even become the world's lingua franca in the first place? Why not a simple, phonetic language like Spanish?  |
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Simple phonetic languages. |
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nomad soul

Joined: 31 Jan 2010 Posts: 11454 Location: The real world
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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IchliebeHunde1492 wrote: |
English does not make a good lingua franca because of its spelling and pronunciation difficulties. Heck, even NATIVE English speakers sometimes forget how to spell a complicated word! I remember when I was in school, we were like, "How do you spell _____?" "How many 's's are in ______?" So, if it's hard enough for native speakers to master, why the HECK did English even become the world's lingua franca in the first place? Why not a simple, phonetic language like Spanish?  |
" " sums up your entire post.
Seriously, just because Spanish is easy and a large population speaks it doesn't mean the entire world should learn it. Besides, if you're basing the importance of a language by the overwhelming number of speakers, then Mandarin should be the world's number one bridge language. However, English is at the top because it's the language used globally for major business and finance trading with Anglophone countries, which also accounts for the high interest in foreigners wanting to study in English-speaking universities. Plus, include American and British pop culture (i.e., industries such as sports, music, and film/television) to the mix. For example, songs by the Beatles and Michael Jackson are extremely popular worldwide, but hits by Julio Iglesias---not so much.
and wrote: |
One issue I had in China (or actually, it would've happened anywhere in the world outside of Spain and Latin America!) is that I got tired of all the emphasis on English, English, English, English. |
If you're tired of teaching English, then why continue with TEFL? Find a profession that excites you rather than one that you find difficult to teach and bores you, especially since your disdain for English is likely to rub off on your students. |
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Mushkilla

Joined: 17 Apr 2014 Posts: 320 Location: United Kingdom
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Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:29 pm Post subject: Re: Seriously, why can't SPANISH be the world's "lingua |
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IchliebeHunde1492 wrote: |
I really do think it'd be better if Spanish were the lingua franca of the world. |
Well, IchliebeHunde1492, Spanish will not and cannot be the lingua franca of the world. The world would not need a lingua franca in the computer dominated world.
According to Dr Ostler, who speaks 26 languages, said English will become the last lingua franca.
English will actually dominant for a relatively short time, compared to the ancient languages. It has ben the lingua franca for just a couple of hundred years compared to the millennia that Latin ruled the world.
“One day English too, the last lingua franca to be of service to a multi-lingual world, will be laid down. Thereafter everyone will speak and write in whatever language they choose and will understand.”
"“The most plausible future for English is it will continue to be spoken as a mother tongue (in English-speaking nations) but it’s position as lingua franca will be over taken by technology as more and more people live their lives electronically.”
Dr Ostler said English is already in decline and may become more of a 'text language' before dying out completely as a dominant language.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/9314749/Hay-Festival-2012-English-will-die-out-like-Latin-leading-linguist-claims.html
If the English language will be taken by technology, then I guess Linguists and English teachers will be out of job!  |
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Sashadroogie

Joined: 17 Apr 2007 Posts: 11061 Location: Moskva, The Workers' Paradise
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Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:27 am Post subject: |
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Perhaps not a bad thing for English, given the abuse it takes by those who can't speak it properly. Or write it... |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013 Posts: 1736
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Posted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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One cannot legislate language. Sorry. A language becomes what it is by virtue of its use (and misuse). |
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water rat

Joined: 30 Aug 2014 Posts: 1098 Location: North Antarctica
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:02 am Post subject: |
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All of the above answers are correct. Since you asked for a 'serious' answer in your title question, my serious answer is that politics (read: military power) and economics made English top dog. You are doubtless aware that Great Britain (the English-speaking part especially) had a great empire that the sun was said to never have set upon. Their bitter, albeit short-lived rival, Napoleon (who they ended up kicking the 'arse' of), called England a nation of shopkeepers, and he was right, but it was exactly that - their dominance of industry and commerce for the whole of the 19th century and a few decades before and after it that made the English language "important". So even an ambitious bloke like old Boney (Napoleon) couldn't change that and make his own language and culture "the one" as much as he would have loved to do so. And then there was us Yanks. Do you know the reason the dollar is the world currency is that at the end of WWII wholly half the world's wealth/currency was in the United States? Like you, I am an American, but I am not proud of this fact. It's sad really that Europe was so devastated by war, and the rest of the world was so dirt poor (partly because of The Great Depression, partly because it always had been). So you see? Why would Queen Victoria or Dwight David Eisenhower say, "Muy bien, everybody, let's all learn Español, the grammar, spelling and pronunciation are all easier, and someday some dude who calls himself IchliebeHunde1492 and one and a half billion Chinese will thank us for it."? Not bloody likely, now is it?
BTW, this dollar dominance is breaking up only now. Our friends, the Chinese, are the savvy operators who see that 1945 was a lifetime ago, and it is they that have the economic might now. Fortunately for the world, they're not nearly as warmongering and ferocious as either the Yanks or Brits, and prefer to usher in The Chinese Century (We've had the British and American ones) without cannon or tanks. -but, I stray from the topic... |
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plumpy nut
Joined: 12 Mar 2011 Posts: 1652
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:43 am Post subject: |
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water rat wrote: |
Their bitter, albeit short-lived rival, Napoleon (who they ended up kicking the 'arse' of), called England a nation of shopkeepers, |
Britain never kicked Napoleon's Arse. Waterloo was won by the skin of the allies teeth together with the help of Prussia. It looks like Marshal Blucher actually may have been much more responsible for the Napoleon's defeat than Wellington and essentially got no credit for it. The allies only won Waterloo directly because Napoleon was sick and couldn't effectively command his massive 500,000 strong army. You also might take into consideration that the battle occured even after Napoleon lost a huge number of troops in Russia due to an unusually severe winter.
water rat wrote: |
and after it that made the English language "important". So even an ambitious bloke like old Boney (Napoleon) couldn't change that and make his own language and culture "the one" as much as he would have loved to do so. |
For a long time up until fairly recently French was spoken more widely than English.
water rat wrote: |
I am an American, but I am not proud of this fact. |
Who cares? |
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scot47

Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:11 pm Post subject: |
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Why not Klingon ? Or Esperanto ? |
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spiral78

Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
d) It's more fun teaching a non-native language! It just is. I guess because I have been through the same process as the learners. Even then, Spanish is so easy to pronounce (more on that later) that it's really not hard to achieve a "near-native" accent. I did have an Ecuadorian girl once ask me, "¿Es usted de España?" |
If Spanish were the target language, few learners would hire a non-native speaker to teach it - why would they, when, as you point out, there are so many native speakers of Spanish??? |
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water rat

Joined: 30 Aug 2014 Posts: 1098 Location: North Antarctica
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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water rat wrote: |
I am an American, but I am not proud of this fact. |
plumpy nut wrote: |
Who cares? |
Ever hear of quoting in context? I am saying that I am not proud of the fact that most of the world's wealth was concentrated in the U.S. in 1945. Don't post drunk. Learn some basic reading comprehension skills.
As for French being more widely spoken than English, so what? Once again you lack reading comprehension skills. From the start of this thread it's been clear that sheer numbers have nothing to do with anything. |
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Alien abductee
Joined: 08 Jun 2014 Posts: 527 Location: Kuala Lumpur
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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Read The Story of English (Robert McCrum, Robert MacNeil, William Cran) if you want the real low-down on why our language is numero uno and not Spanish or something else. If you're too lazy to read then the book is also in documentary form, eight parts from start to finish and you can find it on some torrent sites. They don't teach this stuff in school but they should. |
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grahamb

Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 1945
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Posted: Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:44 pm Post subject: Ironic |
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Quote: |
if you want the real low-down on why our language is numero uno and not Spanish or something else. |
Ah, the joy of pure, unadulterated English!  |
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scot47

Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 15343
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'll wait for the movie. |
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grahamb

Joined: 30 Apr 2003 Posts: 1945
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Posted: Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:09 pm Post subject: Moving experience |
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Good English died with Orwell.  |
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