|
Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
|
 Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:43 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| dove wrote: |
| Good Lord. Every corporate job is like AEON. You smile in front of the trainers then roll your eyes in the bar in the evening. Granted, it's a lot to take in during the training week. But as long as you make an effort, show up, smile, NOT roll your eyes in front of the trainers, you will be OK. It's a bloody job and it really doesn't need a lot of dissection. |
No, not every corporate job is like this. Extremely few are. One has to adopt a distinct personality while on the job with that I have never encountered anywhere else. The test is whether one maintains that personality with sufficient rigor, that is for sure.
My simple complaint is that the company says that one has ample time to learn the method and I don't think that is the case. Am I wrong about this simple point?
I have been 100% honne here, because I see no value in tatemae here. I just don't. There has to be a place where certain things can be openly discussed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 3:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Maitoshi wrote: |
| We insist. |
1. I want to keep the discussion in one place. The video clip that I mentioned ties directly with the subject matter of this forum.
2. I don't want to use my youtube account about this issue.
3. There is no need to make my concerns about the video on every conceivable page. If someone finds this concern interesting or worthwhile, they will read it here. Whether they like it or despise it, that view would go a long way towards determining what choices would be best for them for their lives.
4. There should be places where the company can tell their story without me chiming in. I really believe that. I've pretty much said my piece. It's just when the company says things that are so contrary to my direct experience, it reaffirms a lot of what I've said before. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 5:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| rslrunner wrote: |
| I have been 100% honne here, because I see no value in tatemae here. I just don't. There has to be a place where certain things can be openly discussed. |
This alone seems to point to a contradiction in your thinking. You don't like the (business) culture in Japan but there you go sprinkling around a few J terms (not that they'll faze most readers here) when English ('upfront' versus 'putting on a brave face', for example) would do just as well.
There may well have been dozens of points, 'distinct steps', gestures even, but I'm sure one could say the same about any "non-trivial" training, especially ELT training, where one isn't the final recipient but meant to go on and teach people (your students) in turn. That is not to say that I have a particularly high opinion of most teacher training, let alone this type, but it is what it is.
Don't get me wrong, I'd probably put a gun in my mouth if I had to teach for long at one of these large eikaiwa. I'm hard pressed though to recall anything you've said about Aeon that's particularly damning, other that is than your hyperbole of course (bandying around words like 'cult'), which I'm not surprised some Aeon lawyers had words with you about. (I had to laugh when niceniceteacher declared by fiat on another of your threads that you have "an ax to grind, and rightly so, as Aeon had threatened you"). I think most people who read these threads will go away still wondering quite what your beef was, and doubtless the majority will undeterred go on to have a relatively easy (or certainly easier) time working for Aeon or similar. That's life.
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:57 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
| I have been 100% honne here, because I see no value in tatemae here. I just don't. There has to be a place where certain things can be openly discussed. |
This alone seems to point to a contradiction in your thinking. You don't like the (business) culture in Japan but there you go sprinkling around a few J terms (not that they'll faze most readers here) when English ('upfront' versus 'putting on a brave face', for example) would do just as well.
There may well have been dozens of points, 'distinct steps', gestures even, but I'm sure one could say the same about any "non-trivial" training (ELT ~), especially when one isn't the final recipient of the training but meant to go on and teach people (your students) in turn. That is not to say that I have a particularly high opinion of most teacher training, let alone this type, but it is what it is.
Don't get me wrong, I'd probably put a gun in my mouth if I had to teach for long at one of these large eikaiwa. I'm hard pressed though to recall anything you've said about Aeon that's particularly damning, other that is than your hyperbole of course (bandying around words like 'cult'), which I'm not surprised some Aeon lawyers had words with you about. (I had to laugh when niceniceteacher declared by fiat on another of your threads that you have "an ax to grind, and rightly so, as Aeon had threatened you"). I think most people who read these threads will go away still wondering quite what your beef was, and doubtless the majority will undeterred go on to have a relatively easy (or certainly easier) time working for Aeon or similar. That's life. |
In the words of the great Chuck D from Public Enemy, "I don't rhyme for the sake of riddling." You seem to disagree with some of what I've said, and you say that I should be saying this instead of that. That's fine. But I have been clear and straight-forward and sincere, so if you are baffled, well, read what I have written again.
No lawyer has contacted me about what I've written here. No lawyer should, as free speech is a protected right in the United States. (If one is under contract and living in Japan, of course this does not apply.)
Does one day qualify as an "ample opportunity" to plan and prepare a lesson that requires 42 distinct and sequential steps? I don't think so. If I am wrong about this and about the initial training in general, now is the time to address the topic of this particular thread. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rslrunner wrote: |
Just on a whim, I went to Youtube to see if Aeon had posted some new videos that promoted the company.
|
(emphasis mine)
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 6:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| No lawyer has contacted me about what I've written here. No lawyer should, as free speech is a protected right in the United States. (If one is under contract and living in Japan, of course this does not apply.) |
Well, 'here' is an ambiguous word for a start. On this thread? On this forum? Or anywhere and everywhere about "this here topic of Aeon"? All I can remember is that you mentioned on some other thread that you'd been contacted by some legal reps who weren't happy that you were even mentioning the company name, hence niceniceteacher's allusion to some sort of 'threat' against you. I'm not debating (going to debate) your right to 'free speech', I was simply referring back to something that I recall you'd posted. Please correct me if I am wrong about who said what, as I can't really be bothered to go back and check. 
| Quote: |
| In the words of the great Chuck D from Public Enemy, "I don't rhyme for the sake of riddling." You seem to disagree with some of what I've said, and you say that I should be saying this instead of that. That's fine. But I have been clear and straight-forward and sincere, so if you are baffled, well, read what I have written again. |
It's all very well to keep laying claim to things like rights, free speech, clarity, sincerity, and apparent song lyrics, but I'd say it's more a matter of (lack of) content and the conclusions being overstated or not necessarily following. But by all means keep knocking yourself out (re)building your case against Aeon.
| Quote: |
| Does one day qualify as an "ample opportunity" to plan and prepare a lesson that requires 42 distinct and sequential steps? I don't think so. If I am wrong about this and about the initial training in general, now is the time to address the topic of this particular thread. |
That would again depend on details, which you might want to provide. If these steps consist of things like the following, then I'd say a day would probably suffice for most people.
1. Shake it off.
2. Ensure zipper is fastened.
3. Grin into mirror and say "I'm a winner".
3b. Straighten tie/blouse.
3c. Vent excess gas.
3d. Attach Struttergear expletive censor ("Mike's Bleeper System") to your belt if necessary (see Appendix 142, "Aeon Policy on Swearing, and Tourette's").
3e. Exit Men's (Women's) room or staffroom.
4. Collect materials and walk calmly and punctually to classroom.
5. Greet students and invite them to sit with sweeping motion of cupped back of hand towards empty chairs. Think Aikido.
6. Stand in "shizentai" when facing the class.
7. Adopt "renoji dachi" (L-stance) when writing on board, with base of L being on the same side as the hand you write with. This base must form no more than a 22.5 degree angle (opening from little toe to heel) with the board, and one ABSOLUTELY MUST stand within easy writing distance of the board (no ice-skating single-leg straining lean-ins allowed). The trainers will mercilessly enforce this last.
8. Avoid distracting extremes such as shiko or even neko-ashi dachi (especially if you dare turn your back to the class), or Nazi salutes.
9. Don't put your hands in your pockets, especially if it is just to impatiently jiggle loose change.
10. Bring your hands together and say "Okayyy then" to formally begin the class.
11. ...
.....
32. When making the circular 'repeat' gesture, do it in an outward rather than inward circle, as the latter makes you look silly.
33. When showing pitch contours, have your hand facing inwards rather than outwards as it prevents rotator-cuff strain and walking like an Egyptian.
34. When bringing fingers together to show syllable contractions, avoid making the Vulcan peace sign. This is an immediate sacking offence. (The Big Enchilada hates Star Trek).
35. ...
..... (42)
Now of course, essentials like the above should be an absolute priority, but there are often conflicting priorities, and lunch.
Last edited by fluffyhamster on Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:07 pm; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
HLJHLJ
Joined: 06 Oct 2009
Posts: 1218
Location: Ecuador
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| rslrunner wrote: |
Does one day qualify as an "ample opportunity" to plan and prepare a lesson that requires 42 distinct and sequential steps? I don't think so. If I am wrong about this and about the initial training in general, now is the time to address the topic of this particular thread. |
What planning and preparation? You teach straight from a book, it's all there written out for you, the steps are basically the same for most of the lessons. I've seen the AEON material, it's not complicated or excessive. You are spoon-fed the procedure, as you are in many language schools with their own method/procedure all over the world.
If you have some previous teaching experience you should be able to pick up one of their books, spend 5 mins skimming through and then present it. Obviously, people who have zero teaching experience will need a little more help.
Your inability to cope with it during the couple of days you were there is a reflection of your abilities, not of AEON or their method. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
kpjf
Joined: 18 Jan 2012
Posts: 385
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 29, 2015 8:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
| Quote: |
| No lawyer has contacted me about what I've written here. No lawyer should, as free speech is a protected right in the United States. (If one is under contract and living in Japan, of course this does not apply.) |
Well, 'here' is an ambiguous word for a start. On this thread? On this forum? Or anywhere and everywhere about "this here topic of Aeon"? All I can remember is that you mentioned on some other thread that you'd been contacted by some legal reps who weren't happy that you were even mentioning the company name, hence niceniceteacher's allusion to some sort of 'threat' against you. I'm not debating (going to debate) your right to 'free speech', I was simply referring back to something that I recall you'd posted. Please correct me if I am wrong about who said what, as I can't really be bothered to go back and check. |
Here:
(Link: http://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?3,127409)
| Quote: |
He did not get any settlement, but the AEON office said that they knew about my online postings . Then a representative from the AEON office told my lawyer to “shut the hell up.” The reason was because my contract had a non-disclosure agreement, which said that I could not speak out against AEON.
It is hard to overstate how much this threat. First, it was the company itself that cancelled the contract, so they wanted to me to adhere to a contract that they unilaterally cancelled after three days. Second, I made about $250 while there, but the flight to Japan was a $1,000 bucks alone, so I lost a fair amount of money on this contract, let alone tons of time and effort. More importantly, the contract specifically states that the only legal jurisdiction for the contract was Japan, and I was back in a country where free speech is sacrosanct. Most importantly, it became clear that they wanted to maintain a firewall so nobody would know what happens during the Initial Training sessions, at the expense of the mostly young and well-meaning trainees who are selected by Aeon.
It became clear to me that they were anxious for me not to talk about my experience in Japan. But why the secrecy with a company that just teaches English? |
| fluffyhamster wrote: |
3c. Vent excess gas. |
Don't try squeezing too hard - you might have a nasty little accident and get more than you bargained for  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
nicenicegaijin
Joined: 27 Feb 2015
Posts: 157
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HLJHLJ wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
Does one day qualify as an "ample opportunity" to plan and prepare a lesson that requires 42 distinct and sequential steps? I don't think so. If I am wrong about this and about the initial training in general, now is the time to address the topic of this particular thread. |
What planning and preparation? You teach straight from a book, it's all there written out for you, the steps are basically the same for most of the lessons. I've seen the AEON material, it's not complicated or excessive. You are spoon-fed the procedure, as you are in many language schools with their own method/procedure all over the world.
If you have some previous teaching experience you should be able to pick up one of their books, spend 5 mins skimming through and then present it. Obviously, people who have zero teaching experience will need a little more help.
Your inability to cope with it during the couple of days you were there is a reflection of your abilities, not of AEON or their method. |
Give the guy a break, he clearly says he had the flu. Trying to do an orientation at an eikaiwa with the flu isn't exactly a smart move, and asking someone to resign because they are not doing a good job because they have the flu is also strange.
There seems to have been a communication breakdown from the start, to me it boils down to two three people of less than average intelligence: the first comes to orientation with the flu, the others are too dumb to realize the guy is sick and that is why he cannot perform and ask him to leave. And then the guy who is asked to leave actually agrees to leave waists a visa and 2 plane tickets which was also a dumb move. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
natsume
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
Posts: 409
Location: Chongqing, China
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 2:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Indeed, what a waist. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 6:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| HLJHLJ wrote: |
| rslrunner wrote: |
Does one day qualify as an "ample opportunity" to plan and prepare a lesson that requires 42 distinct and sequential steps? I don't think so. If I am wrong about this and about the initial training in general, now is the time to address the topic of this particular thread. |
What planning and preparation? You teach straight from a book, it's all there written out for you, the steps are basically the same for most of the lessons. I've seen the AEON material, it's not complicated or excessive. You are spoon-fed the procedure, as you are in many language schools with their own method/procedure all over the world.
If you have some previous teaching experience you should be able to pick up one of their books, spend 5 mins skimming through and then present it. Obviously, people who have zero teaching experience will need a little more help.
Your inability to cope with it during the couple of days you were there is a reflection of your abilities, not of AEON or their method. |
This information is, and I must emphasize that is my strongly-held opinion, profoundly inaccurate and a profound disservice.
Most lessons have the same structure, sure. If you know that structure, then it would be easy to plan, prepare teach the lesson with five minutes prep.
But trying to teach the lesson without knowing the structure of the methodology is extremely difficult. 42 steps. Hand gestures to go along every step. Specific phrases that must be used. (For example, you cannot say "today we are going to....", you have to say, "Let's do" instead.....)
Teaching experience can be a detriment at first as well, because no matter how you teach, you will have to change your approach to fit the exact specifications that Aeon requires. Aeon itself does not provide these exact specifications until less than 24 hours before you are judged by how you teach that very method!
If someone chooses to work with Aeon, I would want them to succeed in the first week. That means they need to know as much as possible about what is expected of them, and when. That's what this thread is all about and should be about.
HLJHLJ, again, you are doing a huge disservice to everyone who goes through initial training by saying that the work that week is simple. It is not, and Aeon employees themselves have freely acknowledged that.
If you decide to go this route, and you find yourself in initial training, I would advise the following:
1. If you are genuinely sick, say so. The desire to please will be strong, but the initial training cannot be done if physically ill.
2. Do not worry about being perfect; focus instead on being positive. (Besides being really sick, I focused too much on getting every little thing right during a key 36 hour period and understanding the overall meaning of why things are done a certain way. The key is to respond to external cues, as opposed to trying to internalize the lesson in such a short period of time.)
3. (This point may be questioned, but I believe it 100%.) Understand that the primary goal of initial training is not to maximize your competence, but for you to undergo and demonstrate the right level of behavior modification. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Thereandbackagain
Joined: 03 Nov 2007
Posts: 20
Location: Osaka, Japan
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
Rslrunner,
I'm really sorry that you had a bad if not horrible experience with Aeon. But after reading your posts over the past couple of years, I think you need to let go of this. Things don't always work out the way we want them to. I think your time and effort would be better spent on what you are doing now and your future. Best of luck! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 10:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| @NNG: I for one was sympathetic to the fact that the OP had flu (I said so back on page 1). But like Thereandbackagain above has said (and doubtless others too here and there), I also think it is time for the OP to move on. The evidence presented simply is not damning enough to have held a grudge and continued a bad-mouthing campaign this long. Yes, training often does little to really help and may in fact hinder one during certainly the training if not the job too, who'd've thought? You bite your tongue during the training and work out what the trainers want to see. If 99% of the other seals can stand on upturned buckets and clap for their fish then so can you, the relaxing swims in the pool alone with your thoughts come later, once the show's over and the punters have gone home. If you don't like~can't stand being quite closely monitored and told to follow potentially objectionable procedures then you choose your employers more wisely or change them ASAP. Classy though, the way you proffer sympathy on the one hand and then say the OP was of 'less than average intelligence' because he 'actually agrees to leave waists a visa and 2 plane tickets which was also a dumb move' (but I agree that wasn't a smart move, work visas don't grow on trees and take a while to [re]appear, especially if you leave the country and make yourself unavailable for in-person interviews or indeed potentially immediate alternative openings!). |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
fluffyhamster
Joined: 13 Mar 2005
Posts: 3292
Location: UK > China > Japan > UK again
|
| Posted: Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| Specific phrases that must be used. (For example, you cannot say "today we are going to....", you have to say, "Let's do" instead.....) |
Well, why would you want to use the longer phrase (unless of course you're free and capable enough to get into teaching the various future-related forms whenever you please). The Japanese are more familiar with Let's (cf. e.g. -mashoo). That may (hell, will) result in impoverished, repetitive and stilted instructionese, but then, it is just instructionese. I assume the actual content (from lesson to lesson) would be more varied.
| Quote: |
| 3. (This point may be questioned, but I believe it 100%.) Understand that the primary goal of initial training is not to maximize your competence, but for you to undergo and demonstrate the right level of behavior modification. |
I agree that it's hard to develop genuine competence in limited time periods, but just from your second-guessing those above phrases, it seems you were overthinking things and even presuming to know better than the trainers. Sometimes (not often, it is true LOL) they may in fact know better than you (or at least have their reasons for simplifying). You need to pick your battles, and (run-of-the-mill) training isn't the place to really start questioning anything too much, as your prospects depend on graduating "successfully". I doubt if once in the job the occasional deviation from the script would've mattered too much. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
rslrunner
Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Posts: 252
|
| Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thereandbackagain wrote: |
Rslrunner,
I'm really sorry that you had a bad if not horrible experience with Aeon. But after reading your posts over the past couple of years, I think you need to let go of this. Things don't always work out the way we want them to. I think your time and effort would be better spent on what you are doing now and your future. Best of luck! |
You don't understand. This is not about me. This is for everyone who wants to understand what goes on during the initial training period. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
This page is maintained by the one and only Dave Sperling.
Contact Dave's ESL Cafe
Copyright © 2018 Dave Sperling. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2002 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
