Job Discussion Forums

[paul1984]

Hello there!

I just finished university and already taken steps to go to Korea to teach English. I have applied with a recruiter.

Before I tell you more, however, I think a short bio on me to give you context for my question will help explain why I'm asking about the 2 years teaching experience for China.

In early 2010, I went to Vietnam with my Vietnamese friend for a vacation. Loved it, and the trip eventually spawned the idea for me to go to Asia at some point and teach English. At this moment in my life, however, I did not have a degree. Imagine my disappointment when I found out that having a degree was essential to teach English in most places in Asia. So I bit the bullet, went to university, and finally graduated with a BA in English this past summer.

During my 4 years studying, I immersed myself in these forums, reading about the different Asian countries, what the different requirements were, etc. Now put yourself in my shoes in 2010 when I started university, and imagine reading these forums at that time: "Korea is the place to go to make money!" "Korea will pay for your plane ticket over!" "Korea will pay severance and pay your flight back home after your contract is done!"

Wow, I thought. Korea is the place to go!

So, concentrating on my studies, I did not frequent the forums as much (except once and while, here and there).

Now imagine my disappointment when reading the forums in the present, in 2014: "Korea is no longer providing airfare!" "The hours have gone up!" "The wages are being lowered!" "They only hire white females now!"

So I peruse the forums, trying to figure out where the hot new location for EFL in Asia is now. And I found it: China. Alright, I thought. I'll reset my course for China. In fact, China seems like a more exciting place to me, and it seems bigger than Korea, have more people, have more places to explore. So I read the China forums with avid interest:

"We want Native speakers with a degree!" That's me baby! I'm your man! "We will pay for your airfare and apartment." Whaaat? You've just won my heart! "You'll be able to save enough money to pay off your student loans." Baby, marry me now! "We require 2 years teaching experience." Wa-wa-what? Slow down sweetheart, I'm still a virgin! I haven't broken my teaching cherry yet!

Okay, so here it is: is it possible to teach English legally without the two years teaching experience? Or is China off my list?

Additional info: I'm Canadian, 30 years old, BA degree (English), received a clean Criminal background check last week (RCMP), 3 transcripts unopened, and all the rest of that jazz (I will also take a online 120 hour TEFL course next month). I am interested in starting in March or April.

Main reason for joining this forum: afraid South Korea will be difficult to enter now due to everything I've mentioned. Paying off debt is a priority, and Vietnam (which I've read is also a great place to save money and pay off debts) seems equally difficult to enter due to tight Visa regulations (requiring a Celta or equivalent alongside my other documents mentioned above).

If it is not possible, where else in Asia is it possible to go with what I have? (And I've read four years ago Taiwan would be a good place to go to save money; but now in 2014 as I read that forum, it seems equally dead for EFL jobs)

By the way, I read everywhere that for newbies (such as myself) Korea is the ideal place to go, but, read above ^. So China apparently is where I should be aiming for now, right? (not a rhetorical question!).

Help me Obi Wan Kenobi, you're my only hope!

[Lack]

Shouldn't be an issue if you have a 4 year degree + a TEFL (120 hours on-site with teaching practice practicum, of course - not online.)

But it will depend on the city/province and of course the connections the school has. But generally, shouldn't be an issue.

[JamesD]

China rule #6:
The words "definite" and "China" are oxymoronic when used in the same sentence.

Yes, it's the law (read that guideline) in China that you need two years of experience. That said, check jobs outside BJ, SH, or any other major city. There are plenty of places that will hire people with a BA and certificate. Add any tutoring at all to your resume and concentrate on positions that have teaching assistants until you find your sea legs.

P.S. March/April start may be ambitious. Odd time to start except when replacing a total screwup who gets fired or does a runner after CNY. Look at September or do a summer camp in August as a dry run.

[direshark]

Just apply to places and be open with your creds - "no teaching experience" or maybe "some tutoring experience" you'll probably get hired regardless. This seems to be a matter of preference for your employer...

HOWEVER.

What may not be a matter of preference is the generic "years of experience" requirement on Z-Visas. This varies by province to province. I've interpreted this as a simple age requirement: "must be 23 or older" - but then, my university has had a few teachers who were 22, so this really varies too.

(I was under the impression that there's still plenty of milk and honey in Korea with paid flights and etc - this may be just a matter of job hunting.)

Honestly, just figure out what kind of job you want and get your name out there, and be honest. Demand is still way high over here.

[vikeologist]

So, 2 quick things.

If you're interested in starting in March, you're probably too late for Uni jobs. There will be some last minute ones, but then again there will be last minute applicants with 2 years experience.

So mostly language mills, which doesn't seem to tie in too well with your land of milk and honey aspirations.

As someone said there are no definite answers for anything in China.

The 2 year thing is often covered by listing on your CV any experience that can be construed as relevant. The more short-handed a city or province is, the less relevant that experience needs to be. You're 30. You must have done something in the last 12 or so years that could be construed as relevant. The only problem might be that the experience is supposed to post degree

Stop using a recruiter. Your situation makes you too easy to screw over.

[bestteacher2012]

Some places require two years teaching experience, some only require two years work experience in any field. Like the above poster mentioned, the experience rule is post degree.

Apply, apply and apply, especially to the less desirable provinces, you might get lucky.

[Markness]

OP, you'll be fine even in the big cities. They even hire non-natives in the big cities (which is an indicator that a 2-year requirement is probably the least of your worries).

Ever work anywhere? Ever taught someone how to do something at that job? Ta-da! You're a classified "trainer" at your old job. And that's your teaching experience that you need. Find a friend there that can vouch for you who was your "boss". And there you go! There's also a 100 percent chance that the people here won't even call your reference(s).

The hardest step you took was getting yourself a B.A... good job!

Don't be so hard on yourself, get in here and have a good time!

Markness

[roadwalker]

As stated above, there are no definitive answers regarding teaching English in China. You could land yourself in a perfect situation according to your idea of a perfect situation. Or you could land in something that scraping your shoe just doesn't get rid of.

If I were young, I think I would try Korea or Japan with all the positives and negatives involved. I like teaching in universities, and although China is putting/has put a ceiling as to the upper age limit of teachers in place, they still seem to prefer age and wisdom over youth and beauty in those (imo) plum jobs. Don't be put off by the chicken littles that declare the end of the world at one time or another on most of the forums. Yes, the blond/blue salad days may be over in most areas, but not completely. Chances are you can still get a good position in Korea or Japan and the higher starting salaries.

And yes, you probably will be able to find something in China too. On the other hand, with two years' experience under your belt, you should find a better selection of jobs to choose from. Either way, good luck!

[paul1984]

Hello again everyone! Greatly appreciate all the quick responses!

When I first read the 2 year working experience rule, I misread it. I thought it meant 2 years work experience, in any field, at any time in your life, whether teaching or otherwise (I then noticed, however, the Post-degree requirement. So that kind of bummed me out at the time). But apparently that is only in some regions as some of you have said? That is great to know! So it’s a bit of a mixed bag when it comes to teaching in China I take it…?

Before I started University at 26, I did work, but mostly retail jobs in my early 20s. As a young whippersnapper, I did not care much for getting a degree even back then. I just wanted to make money. So I mostly worked job to job. It was only when I went to Vietnam when I was 25 did I get the spark to teach, and hence decided on getting a degree as well.

Anyway, back to my job experiences; as you can probably guess, my work experience occurred only before I graduated. Think Sears and the Bay, big retail outlet stores like that. I worked as a salesperson (think Al Bundy, although instead of selling women’s shoes I sold women’s and men’s watches! Ha-ha).

I guess, as others have said, I can mold my work experience to match my experience for teaching. My retail experiences are somewhat similar to being a teacher on a superficial level, in that you are being a customer service rep to sell a watch or a cufflink or a shirt to a customer off the street, the same way a English teacher is asked to bring in more students from off the street into the classroom so they can make their boss more $ and then sell the students your English (and from what I’ve been reading on this site, that is the impression I get about teaching abroad, although do correct me if I’m off base about that).

Although I haven’t taught young learners English in my past jobs, I did train newly recruited salespeople on what to do, how to sell merchandise, how to work the til, etc. I also left on good terms with a lot of my bosses/employers, and I still have their numbers. If a school does ask to speak to a past employer, I do have that covered.

Searching for a job in March/April: I guess I still have the South Korea framework in my mind, but that’s their season for hiring. So thanks for the heads up about China. I’m thinking, if it is best to apply in September in China, then I might as well stay in Canada and sign up for a real Tefl course like CELTA. But I was kind of hoping to do a year of teaching first, save some money, and then get my CELTA afterwards. But I’m still juggling that, hence why I’m settling for a cheaper online course at this moment. I always wanted to take at least some entry level course to help prepare me to become a teacher. I’m currently reading “500 Activities in the Primary Classroom” by Carol Read to help give me an basic understanding of what is expected in the classroom, how to lesson plan, ect. Anyone ever read that book? And if you have, what are your thoughts on it? Good? Bad? Okay? Better book recommendations you could offer me maybe?

As for going the recruiter route: I’m certainly on the same page with everyone else. Using a recruiter sets you up to be screwed over, I know. But correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t recruiters becoming a necessary evil in this industry now? In Korea for instance, recruiters are increasingly the norm for schools to navigate and select teachers. The schools won’t even look at your resume without the candidate being approved by a recruiter first. So my question for China is: are recruiters not as important in the EFL scene?

The main reason I got my degree in the first place, by the way, is so I wouldn’t have to work illegally in China (or anyway else in the world for that matter), but it seems you need to have a company sponsor you with a Z visa in order to enter China, and the only way a company will look at you is through a recruiter?

By the way, I just wanted to thank everyone for responding to me. I’ve been a long time lurker here, and this site in general is a great resource.

Cheers!

[nomad-ish]

[paul1984]

[roadwalker]

[mike w]

The only thing in China that is definite, is that nothing is ever definite.

[edbuch]

I think I have to make a comment about the large number of negative postings on this site. I used to wonder about this but then I read somewhere that for primitive man, negative information was much more important than positive information. For example, if there was a storm approaching, it was useful to know about it. But if it was going to be a nice sunny day, it was not important. So this fixation on negative information could be a way of helping the human race to survive.

Also, I think my own experience bears this out. When I first arrived in China, four years ago, I remember it was a Saturday morning and I met the nice lady from the FAO. The new term was just starting but she told me that I would not have any classes for one week as I should take my time, have a rest, get to know the place and recover from jet lag. This was great and not like the stories I had read on Daves. However, on Sunday evening at 7 p.m., there was a knock on my door. It was a man from the office to tell me that my first class would be the next morning at 9 a.m. and I needed to get a bus to get there. He even gave me the wrong time for the bus. But I think it was an advantage to me that I had read so many stories on Daves about this sort of administration that I was able to accept it. In fact, for the next 2 years that I stayed at that university, I encountered many, many problems with administration etc. But I could always rely on Daves to find a worse story than my own which made me feel better and less likely to take things personally.

[direshark]