Job Discussion Forums

[star32569]

So I just started a job and had been working there a month. There is not probation period in my contract by the way. Once I landed the hours were not what I signed up for since I am working with a comany I tried to work it out with them. They did this by ignoring me to make things short I was not happy and I received an email saying I was fired a month later. I am still in the school apartment and have asked for my release letter. They have not provided and have been dragging this on for almost 2 weeks now. They told me they found me a job which I don't want because I don't trust the company and they emailed saying they will give the release only to my new job. I gave the job their number and they asked the new job to pay for the release letter. So I am unsure what I can do now. I am out a job and unable to find a new one, is there anywhere I can go to get the school to provide the letter.

I am in a small town so the FAO office cannot help. Once I get the release do I have time to transfer my documents I would just like to know my options.

[vikeologist]

What they're doing is very 'illegal'.

Although as you might appreciate, the local foreign affairs office probably won't be bothered with small infractions by local companies, this is quite severe, so you probably should take it up with them.

First things first though. Are you legal. I ask because if you don't have the correct visa, you are pretty much powerless.

Also, are they breaking the contract by wanting you to work in a different location (or in any way). Many contracts are quite vague on work locations. So, what you need to be sure of is which of you is breaking the contract. If it's you, they're not obliged to give you a release letter.

Honestly, just the threat of notifying the local FAO should be enough to get them to give you anything you want.

Is it a big company, like EF or Shane. If so, even if it's a franchise, you can probably get the school into all kinds of trouble.

However, here's what they're doing wrong, which I'm sure you know.

1. breaking the contract
2. Refusing to provide a release letter, which they are legally obliged to do (if you complete your contractual obligations). Asking for payment is definitely not allowed.

I'd invite you to pm me with more details, (and you can) but I won't be online for another 48 hours.

None of the above questions suggest that I'm not on your side. From what you've said I totally am, but you need to ensure that the employer are clearly at fault.

however, be careful not to publish too much info on these forums, because 1. schools read them, and 2. if it is EF you could be in breach of contract if you do.

Hopefully others will help you over the next 48 hours, and give (should such a thing be possible) better advice than I.

If you have the documents they sent you for your initial z visa, a Chinese friend might be able to help you find the contact details for the local FAO office. Otherwise, maybe it's here http://en.safea.gov.cn/2013-08/21/content_16910164.htm
PS - Didn't read your initial post fully. You say you're in a small town, but a FAO office somewhere sponsored your Z visa. They're the ones that you need to contact. As I say, once you demonstrate that you know enough to cause big problems for the employer (assuming your case is as strong as you suggest) they will capitulate anyway.

Lastly, what options do you need to know about. Once you have the release letter, it should be possible to just transfer your residence permit to the new employer.

[toteach]

They will only give your release letter to a company of their choosing? Are they human slave trafficking?!

Would your Consulate be interested in hearing this?

[drjtrekker]

Star,

Looks like u got taken.
Vike is right.

IF your not legal, u probably are screwed, and don't bother to read the rest.
DONT work for an Agent/Company, go direct if you can.

BUT, First of all your "recruitment/agent" asking for money to send a release is total b.s.
Second, the FAO of the CITY should be able to help you out, that's part of their job.

The company u were employed with is dragging their feet cuz they found a laowai that they can make money off of.

What you need to do is to figure out how to get that release, and start over.
Next time do more research, and if you are unable to get a job straight away for whatever reason, then this is what you will have to put up with.

Welcome to Chiner newbie.

Good luck!

[dongbei united]

[Songbird]

Do you have an official 'z' visa from this job? If not, walk.

Look at echinacities.com with jobs RIGHT NOW for many places in China. Tell the ones you like you can come immediately. Work out your leaving/ transportation under the radar and leave in the night. If you're not legal there's nothing the school can do about it. Don't waste more time and money (ie. living expenses) staying in a dodgy place.

[davelister]

I agree with Songbird.

If there's no Z (work) visa and subsequent work permit the contract is illegal and therefore invalid. A release letter would only prove you've been working illegally; something neither parties (you and your employer) want documented.

If you do have a Z visa then visit / contact your local FAO.

Correct me if I'm wrong anyone, but (assuming everything's legal) I thought an employer was obliged to give a release letter regardless if the employee completed their contract or was sacked or had handed in notice, but the employer wasn't obliged to give a recommendation letter.

Please don't tell us your dodgy recruiter is holding your passport.

[Non Sequitur]

Your visa status is critical and if it is anything other than a Z you are stuffed.
A small town PSB (not FAO), might be marginally interested but if you are on an L visa, you will be seen as the one at fault.
As you talk of a release letter I'm assuming you have a Z.
Your only ally is your new school. Spill the beans to these guys and it maybe they can influence your current school.
Best

[star32569]

I am on a Z visa

Other teachers just do what school says and they did not negotiate their contract like I did prior to coming

My issue with going to FAO ect is maybe they can help but my school then has the right to turn me into a tourist and then I have to go home and start over

This is not a career for me, I am getting certified to teach at home so at this point I want to finish my program and leave china and come back for international schools

I asked recruiters they said they pay for letters all the time but schools are not willing to pay for me because I don't want to work a year.

Again going to the PBS or all those other organizations might get them to give a letter but I will then be a tourist and I want to at this point pay them off get a letter start 5 month contractin March and teach privately till then.

The new job they offered just is not a fit I asked them to find public....I worry about waiting too long

I hope I answered all questions

I made a seperate thread so if anyone has a question about paying they can see it there because maybe getting fired is not their situation but just the release letter.

[Non Sequitur]

When does your Z expire?
Until it does, you are legal.

[vikeologist]

I'm going to stick to this thread, both in terms of release letters and being fired.

If you have a Z visa, you will have some protection against an employer firing you. To be honest, the level of protection will depend a lot on what exactly was in your contract and their (stated) reasons for firing you. I doubt that anyone could give particularly helpful advice on this without knowing all the details, but they can only fire you if you don't fulfil your side of the contract.

As for paying for the release letter, this is extortion on their part. That's a strong word, but (again without knowing full details) there are no circumstances in which an employer can ask for money for this, and by doing so (even if you are an illegal, drug-taking nutcase who was sacked for throwing young children out of 6th floor windows on the rare occasion they turned up to work) they are breaking the law and have made themselves vulnerable. The key thing is that you must not 'extort' them by threatening them with going to the FAO. Instead you should demonstrate to them that you are knowledgeable about their incorrect action, as this gives you some power.

If your new job starts in March, you have a problem with the transfer. You can't get an extension for more than a month from the local Police. Really you need your new employer to get you your residence permit now and transfer the permit immediately. I did this once when a job with a language mill ended in June and my new Uni job started in September. It is do-able, but unfortunately your new employer probably won't want to, and indeed why should they? This is the kind of thing you need to negotiate early on.

So, your options for the next 2 months are limited and complicated. If you're not starting your new job immediately, the Chinese authorities as a whole will probably expect, if not demand, that you get out of their country and come back in March.

If you transfer to a tourist visa, (which I presume is possible, but I'm not sure) you would be breaking the law by doing any work, and you wouldn't be able to change the tourist visa into a work permit / Z visa. You would have to leave the country (Hong Kong possibly, but probably your home country) and get a fresh new visa.

Your situation as I understand it involves a lot of different elements and moving parts, but I'm summarised things as best I understand your situation at the moment.

[nomad soul]

[dongbei united]

[star32569]

We got a letter from Lishui School again today complaining on your poor teaching performance and attitude.

Based on our overall performance survey among our employees and Lishui School teachers, as well as the comments from the parents of those children you taught, we had not seen the positive improvement on your teaching performance since the talk you have with me and our National Academic Director a month before.

We hire good teachers who love to teach and willing to share their own cultures and experience with our students and our Chinese/foreign colleagues. So far by today I keep on receiving complaining on your negative attitude to your assigned teaching job, to your students and to your colleagues. I had never had such a continuous complaining on our teachers before in the past 10 years. I assumed you had not well prepared for the new life in a new environment, or you were not satisfied with our offer which did not meet your expectation.

After carefully reviewed your poor performance and those complaints received, we had to make the decision to terminate the contract with you which would be effective on December 13, 2014.

Based on the contract, we have the right not issue you the release letter for your new job in China but we understood that it would not be easy for you to find a job back to US, we would be able to issue the release letter for you if you find a job in China shortly.

[dongbei united]

"we would be able to issue the release letter for you if you find a job in China shortly"

What does this mean? Who are you talking to? Again, you aren't giving us enough info to work on. Usually, there is a some lackey who will address your concerns and do the legwork.

Why are you turning this into a helpless situation when you aren't telling us who can help you? I have never worked at a school who didn't have someone who worked in the office and handled things until things went sour.

In Japan, it was some Australian woman. Then I went to another school I worked directly with other teachers. No problems there. I went to Korea and worked with the owner and his wife. Then I went to a school with a front desk manager and a head English teacher named Chris. I worked with her and an assistant owner named Richard while the real owner James slept on a couch. I changed jobs and worked in a public school setting. My go to guy was Patrick and the head English teacher there who was very nice. Then I went to a new school, and I worked with Elisha and some managers. After that, I came to China. I worked with a Korean American after leaving a crappy job in Fushun (no names need to be mentioned in either instance). In Beijing I worked with Shirley. After that I worked with Ginger in the international department at a college and a few others in the same department or English department.

I contacted a doofus recruiter named David who hooked me up with a manager named Rosa in central Beijing. I took the job and dealt with Doris. Smokescreen alert, not good experience. I left. David sent me to another school where I visited Tianjin University of Technology and Education in 2013. I left after 7 days. I went to Tangshan instead and worked with Ricki until the director Sunny came back from Singapore. Allen filled in as some authority figure, but it's not important. Another guy there, Quick gave me my out of jail free card and I am back where Shirley worked with me. Instead, it has gone from Marina to Crystal to Bethany to Hao to Gege and now Michael.

You tell us a lot about your situation and I see you have a way out, but you don't tell us anyone you talked to. I just illustrated 10 years of go between people I have dealt with, why can't you?

Why are you posting here and not talking to your Chinese equal?