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star32569
Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 28
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 Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:59 am Post subject: Paying for a release letter |
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So I am tired of waiting on my school to get it together. I want to be done with them and they asked for 5,000 rmb for the letter. I will offer 3,000 any tips on how to do this and not get burned. Since I am looking for only 6 month contract schools are not looking to get involved.
Do I get the letter send it to new schools first?
Just wondering how to do this smoothly |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:56 am Post subject: |
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Allow yourself to be extorted?
Indicate that you have contacted your consulate.
Most don't get involved in employment stuff but the 'threat' may assist.
Hold all assessment marks you may have. I know this makes your students hostages but hey.. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:57 pm Post subject: Re: Paying for a release letter |
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| star32569 wrote: |
| So I am tired of waiting on my school to get it together. |
Is this a continuation of your other thread? If so, it's best to not cut-n-run by starting new threads on the same topic; you end up getting responses in two places and will likely miss advice and inquiries. For instance, someone asked if you are on a Z visa. |
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toteach
Joined: 29 Dec 2008
Posts: 273
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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Have you yet contacted the FAO in your city to tell them what your employer is up to and request their assistance?
Have you yet contacted your consulate for advice?
Are other teachers from this company in the same boat as you?
Aside from the fact that this company is obviously extorting you, wouldn't it be cheaper to leave the country on your own means than pay 5000 RMB to your employer for a release letter?
Keep us posted on your course of action. |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:43 pm Post subject: Re: Paying for a release letter |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| star32569 wrote: |
| So I am tired of waiting on my school to get it together. |
Is this a continuation of your other thread? If so, it's best to not cut-n-run by starting new threads on the same topic; you end up getting responses in two places and will likely miss advice and inquiries. For instance, someone asked if you are on a Z visa. |
I agree with this. OP, you didn't bother to answer legitimate questions on the original thread http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=109432 that have a direct bearing on the answers other posters were offering. (If you didn't enter China on a working z- visa, I wouldn't bother with a release letter, and certainly wouldn't pay for it.) There are probably posters on this forum that have been in your exact situation, but they will need more information before they can give you advice that you can use. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:11 am Post subject: |
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From what I understand, charging money for a release letter is a criminal act UNLESS you consented to it? Did you sign a contract that agrees to pay for this release letter? If not get them to make the payment demand to you in an email and then file a formal complaint with The Procuriate District Office, your police station and with SAFEA. Don't call - write and email. You can make a bigger stink by sending the same detailed complaint - with the evidence to back you up to the Ministry of Justice, and The Ministry of Labor. I also suggest you take their photograph and slap it up on Weibo with a summary of the event with their legal Chinese name.
In case you did not know you do have some rights in China, but will need a lawyer to enforce them IF the formal complaints do not work. Here are some your rights below, and all of them can be seen at http://chinascamwatch.org
* You have the right to receive an original hard copy of your contract that is signed and chopped (red sealed) at the time you sign an employee agreement.
* You have the right to receive a written job description prior to signing your contract. It is up to YOU to make sure that job description is specific, in English, and not so vague that your hours, working days, work location, pay rate, holidays, bonuses, visa costs, air fare reimbursement, release letters, etc are clearly spelled out in no uncertain terms.
* You cannot be compelled nor forced to do anything not specified in your job description (which you should insist becomes and exhibit to your contract and also gets signed and chopped. This stops you from being used as a marketing monkey in shopping malls on the street handing out flyers).
* Your probationary period cannot exceed one month for each year of your employment contract. So if you are asked to sign a one year contract, your probation period should not exceed one month. If however, you sign a contract that specifies a 3 or 6 month probationary period, you are implicitly waiving your right on this issue.
* If you hold an FEC (Foreign Experts Certificate) you cannot be compelled to work unpaid overtime hours without your consent. This one protection alone is worth about 5,000 - 10,000 rmb every month to some expat teachers in China
* You have the right to receive both an invitation letter and release letter free of charge (These are both legal requirements and administrative duties of the employer)
* You have a right to a Z visa if employed in China (Again, this is a legal duty of the employers and if anyone tells you that you only get a Z visa after you complete your probationary period they are surely a scam operation to be avoided). |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I also suggest you take their photograph and slap it up on Weibo with a summary of the event with their legal Chinese name. |
Not wise advice as this may bring legal ramifications. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I also suggest you take their photograph and slap it up on Weibo with a summary of the event with their legal Chinese name. |
Not wise advice as this may bring legal ramifications. |
Really? Telling the truth is illegal? Can you you cite a source or have a link on this? I see dishonest bosses blasted all over Weibo. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
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| Really? Telling the truth is illegal? Can you you cite a source or have a link on this? I see dishonest bosses blasted all over Weibo. |
You mental with a child like capacity if you think it comes to just telling the truth and if I had a link I wouldn't provide it to you as you would blow it all out of whack just like you have with "Telling the Truth is Illegal?" retort. But since you seem to think that telling the truth is worthy of publishing, then perhaps you would not be adverse to someone publishing your postings on Weibo and insinuate that you are dishonest. Want a link for that? Certainly posting on Weibo in Chinese is difficult but if you want to share any of the "Dishonest Bosses Disses" as it seems you are skilled in reading and writing Chinese, this should be no problem for you. |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:00 am Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Really? Telling the truth is illegal? Can you you cite a source or have a link on this? I see dishonest bosses blasted all over Weibo. |
You mental with a child like capacity if you think it comes to just telling the truth and if I had a link I wouldn't provide it to you as you would blow it all out of whack just like you have with "Telling the Truth is Illegal?" retort. But since you seem to think that telling the truth is worthy of publishing, then perhaps you would not be adverse to someone publishing your postings on Weibo and insinuate that you are dishonest. Want a link for that? Certainly posting on Weibo in Chinese is difficult but if you want to share any of the "Dishonest Bosses Disses" as it seems you are skilled in reading and writing Chinese, this should be no problem for you. |
WHAT "LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS" are you talking about? Any legal court claim would only spotlight the management's own dishonesty! Weibo is free and easy way to get results - using "FACE" as leverage. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| WHAT "LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS" are you talking about? Any legal court claim would only spotlight the management's own dishonesty! Weibo is free and easy way to get results - using "FACE" as leverage. |
1st thing; All Caps in a request do not make it more demanding!
What is a "legal" court claim when dealing with non criminal proceedings and at the point of the posting on Weibo it is no longer about a contractual dispute however it could be consider slanderous (unless you are well versed in civil law in China here is where you ask permission to take your foot out of your mouth) and only if the guarantee of a release letter is written in the contract does it do any good to huff and puff like a CFTU Wolf. . In other words you would need to file suit. Your "face' has no leverage here so why would it on a Chinese social site although it could earn you a world of trouble, but don't take my word for it .. ask some of tht excellent legal advice you have been using for source material. Letters from lawyers or Laowais are not scary in China. I have come to know this by receiving a few threatening letters and simply ignoring them. I currently have round 800 followers on my Weibo page and when posting something it goes out to my followers. How many followers do you have (how is your written Chinese) and how many would the normal FT have. True others may be able to see it but in all likely hood they will not having no reason to go to your page. Snoop Dog has a Weibo page (he posted for a while and then gave up), do you have a Weibo page, does CFTU have one? |
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Scrabble King
Joined: 25 Dec 2014
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| asiannationmc wrote: |
| Quote: |
| WHAT "LEGAL RAMIFICATIONS" are you talking about? Any legal court claim would only spotlight the management's own dishonesty! Weibo is free and easy way to get results - using "FACE" as leverage. |
1st thing; All Caps in a request do not make it more demanding!
What is a "legal" court claim when dealing with non criminal proceedings and at the point of the posting on Weibo it is no longer about a contractual dispute however it could be consider slanderous (unless you are well versed in civil law in China here is where you ask permission to take your foot out of your mouth) and only if the guarantee of a release letter is written in the contract does it do any good to huff and puff like a CFTU Wolf. . In other words you would need to file suit. Your "face' has no leverage here so why would it on a Chinese social site although it could earn you a world of trouble, but don't take my word for it .. ask some of tht excellent legal advice you have been using for source material. Letters from lawyers or Laowais are not scary in China. I have come to know this by receiving a few threatening letters and simply ignoring them. I currently have round 800 followers on my Weibo page and when posting something it goes out to my followers. How many followers do you have (how is your written Chinese) and how many would the normal FT have. True others may be able to see it but in all likely hood they will not having no reason to go to your page. Snoop Dog has a Weibo page (he posted for a while and then gave up), do you have a Weibo page, does CFTU have one? |
I disagree. Slander is not an issue if you are saying something that is true. Secondly, I was not talking about the value of MY face but the face of the crooked principal, and yes, all Chinese care deeply about their public reputations even if their own families know the truth. Yes, I do have a Weibo account and a QQ account and I would also use QQ networks as a way to publicize my plight if exploited. A lot of Chinese get pissed when their collective reputation as a race of people is being blackened by some greedy scum bag - even if the victim is a foreigner.
The only "LEGAL RAMIFICATION" that even comes into play here is if the victim is not 100% legal with his Z visa and a genuine diploma, and properly registered at the local police station. If that is all in order, I would go public with the sleazeball who ripped me off and now wants to extort money for a release letter. |
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asiannationmc
Joined: 13 Aug 2014
Posts: 1342
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I disagree. Slander is not an issue if you are saying something that is true. |
Again with the simple understanding of a complex issue.
| Quote: |
| I was not talking about the value of MY face but the face of the crooked principal, and yes, all Chinese care deeply about their public reputations even if their own families know the truth. |
I would reckon they would care little about a post that didn't make it beyond several dozen followers which would be the likely amount if and when a FT even had a Weibo acct. How deep are you pockets when accusing someone of something publicly (although a post such as that would not stay for long) as a counter suit would cost a lot o wampum Chief. Like I said, if your Chinese is good please reprint some of those scores of allegations against bosses on Weibo you pointed to earlier.
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| If that is all in order, I would go public with the sleazeball who ripped me off and now wants to extort money for a release letter. |
Who exactly is gonna care. Do you think you can rally the weibo followers (all 12 of em) to rise up and do what?
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| A lot of Chinese get pissed when their collective reputation as a race of people is being blackened by some greedy scum bag - even if the victim is a foreigner. |
Maybe resulting from hot noodles thrown in an airline stews face, but failure to give a release letter, now your embarrassing yourself.
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| Yes, I do have a Weibo account and a QQ account and I would also use QQ networks as a way to publicize my plight if exploited. |
Then why don't you offer this young poster the option to let you publish this yourself on your weibo-page and use your established QQ networks to out this dishonest principal. After all you come n this site as an advising protector of sorts, why not put up or shut up. After all as you state, you have the Weibo and QQ already set up which a new FT may not, seems as long as your providing solutions then by all means provide the vehicle to complete this ride. |
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likwid_777
Joined: 04 Nov 2012
Posts: 411
Location: NA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Might be cheaper to get a new passport without the old visas. You'll have to go home to get a new Z visa anyway. Not ideal, you'll essentially lose the experience resume wise, but you seem to be between a rock and a hard place. |
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star32569
Joined: 16 Dec 2014
Posts: 28
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| Posted: Sun Jan 04, 2015 7:40 am Post subject: Update |
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| I guess I paid, my contract said I would get 1,000 usd if they ended the contract or me. They owed me for 3 days work, I told them I will call the cops to watch the exchange, they said I pay or they take it out my money. I never said yes....just I need the letter. It was given to me but I never planned on seeing any of the money in the contract. I would like to file a complaint now that I have what I need. |
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