Job Discussion Forums

[Simplicity]

I need some clarification here. I'm hearing differing opinions from recruiters here.

I didn't finish my contract at a college in Guangzhou as I had some family things to take care of back in New Zealand. We mutually terminated the contract around Christmas day.

I'm trying to line up a job back in Guangzhou now from New Zealand. The college is refusing to give me a release letter/recommendation letter as I left before the final exam period for the students. I have said they can be totally honest in the recommendation and say what happened. However, they are still refusing. I did have an excellent relationship with the students and college up until a few weeks before Christmas so it's a shame it's come to this.

So... now that I'm back in New Zealand can I just apply for a new work permit and z visa? Or do I still require the release letter & recommendation letter? Some people are telling me because I'm in New Zealand and starting fresh I don't need these documents. Others are telling me because I'll still be on the Guangdong system, I'll need the documents.

Help please...

[BleedingBlue]

They can deny it all they like, but legally speaking an employer is required by law to provide a release letter - it must be provided, but of course it can state specifically that you did not complete your contract. Nowadays, a release letter is required only to have your identifying information and employers information as well as the date of your contract and the end/termination date of work - thus showing if you completed your contract. In the past it was supposed to also have "would you hire this person again" information akin to a letter of recommendation - but that is gone and a separate document if requested. All employers must provide a release letter per law or be fined.

The concept of being gone for some period of time is hardly the solution. It's the same people who think "I'll run away from China for a few months, get a new passport by telling my government a lie that I lost it, or dash off to a new province" that are the same people that clearly have legal issues back home that they can't run back to and get a job there. And, in fact, the issue is "previous employment" in China - well more likely in the province. If you are on record as having had a F.E.C. issued to you, then you need to provide a letter of release from your last/previous employer. Gone are the days of prancing out of the country, allowing your so-called credentials to expire and think you can come in as some virginal language teacher.

Contact SAFEA, the PSB, or the provincial or city FAO and explain the situation and that they are in violation of the law.

I'm not much of a kiss ass - I know what my legal rights are and I'll fight for them so long as it is practical and necessary - I'm not a coward like a dog with its tail between its legs because it is a foreigner in China.

What does "mutually terminated the contract" mean? You said bye to them and they agreed? You never heard of getting documentation - in other words, C.Y.A.? Getting a letter stating that they mutually agreed would be no less equal to the letter of release.

So you're saying you took off. Right?

[Simplicity]

Thanks for your detailed reply.

That's interesting. So let me just confirm, I would only need a release letter from the college? Not the recommendation part? I think they would be willing to give me a release letter. They aren't keen on the recommendation part.

That's good to know about the legal side of it. They still have two weeks before they go on winter vacation, so hopefully I can get it.

Thanks for clearing up about leaving the country and starting the z visa process fresh.

Re: termination of contract. I missed a few classes leading up to Christmas and they asked me whether I would like to finish the semester. I said I'd prefer to go home. This is the email they sent:

"So we respect your choice in terminating the employment contract earlier. We agree that your employment contract is terminated on December 26th, 2014 as you requested in the email."

[Simplicity]

I just got off the phone with the Guangzhou Foreign Expert Bureau. They said I must have a recommendation letter from the college to teach again legally. The contents of which are not so important apparently, but I must have it.

[Bud Powell]

[Shanghai Noon]

What is their reason for refusing? If you have some proof that they refused, you can show it to the Foreign Expert Bureau and politely ask them to make a polite telephone call. The recommendation letter is just standard information and some tick-the-box stuff.

I really hate the way this works in China. The FEB NEVER takes the employee's side on anything. They allow companies to terminate any employee they want to without any questions, but if an employee wants to quit they need the employer's permission. If it wasn't for the risks I'd work illegally.

[mysterytrain]

Sorry for piggybacking the thread, but I'm also interested in clarification on the release letter requirement.

I taught in China between August 2010 and June 2011. I left about two weeks prior to the official end of the contract, but all of my classes had finished for the term, and I was given the green light to leave by the recruiter who sent me to the job (who told me that she had cleared it with the school) so as far as I know they considered me to have completed my contract. However, no release letter was given and I did not ask for one as I knew nothing about any requirement at the time.

I intend to apply for a "Z" visa several months from now for a job which would start in September of this year (in a different province than the one where I worked before). Any chance that somewhere in the process, the lack of a release letter from the first job will hold me up?

I was under the impression that a release letter wasn't required if one had left China after the previous job and was applying for a new "Z" from outside the country, but apparently this is not the case?

[Bud Powell]

I was under the impression that a release letter wasn't required if one had left China after the previous job and was applying for a new "Z" from outside the country, but apparently this is not the case?

It's probably just enforced in the larger metro areas. I was told By an FAO that a letter of RELEASE was not required of the FAO if the FT returned to his home country. I received no such letter when I returned home last time. I returned to a small city (2 million) and had no problems whatsoever. Nobody has said boo about it.

I don't know how a letter of recommendation became required. Half the FTs I've known couldn't get a sincere LoR if their lives depended upon it. Release? Yes. Recommendation? No.

I find it difficult to believe that any employer would write a letter of recommendation for any former employee unless he was sure that the recommendation wouldn't come back to bite him.

I believe that what is needed is a Letter of Release.

[Simplicity]

Well... I'm no further forward on this issue.

As mentioned earlier, I called the Guangzhou Foreign Expert Bureau this week and they said I must have a recommendation letter.

However, my employer wrote back to me with this:

"I consulted the staff in Foreign Affairs Office of Guangdong province this afternoon. She says when you apply for a Working Permit and Letter of Invitation, you don't need the recommendation letter from previous employer. After we cancel your Foreign Expert Permit, you will not in the Guangdong System any more. We don't have the responsibility to provide the recommendation letter with you, it depends on the employers themselves. However, considering your working for *****, we will give you the recommendation letter as you required according to your performance of this semester. Please give me some time because everyone is very busy at the end of semester. I will send it to you before the school close."

I'm not at all surprised at the differing opinions coming from different departments in China. Anyway, they will give me the letter so that's good.

[jmoxley]

Good luck Simplicity!

[Chroniclesoffreedom]

[Simon in Suzhou]

I don't know if the OP left on good terms or bad terms, but I've seen this scenario played out many times here in China (and also other countries in Asia). In China, the employees are expected to meekly submit to whatever the boss says and NEVER make waves. They are not to complain directly, even when treated unfairly, and they are certainly not supposed to make any emotional outbursts (especially in front of other underlings) that might make the boss embarrassed or lose face. Quitting in an untimely manner is frowned upon, especially if it makes the life of the boss more stressful (What? I must find a replacement in a month???!!!).

Chinese tend to avoid confrontation, but they can be brutally passive-aggressive. You may not even know your boss is/was unhappy with you until it comes back to bite you later on.

This doesn't help the OP much now, but a real key to success in working in China is setting aside your natural cultural reactions to situations and learning to "play the game" a bit as the Chinese do. Do you want a decent life in China? Do you want to have smooth transitions to new jobs? This is my advice...as someone who has made ALL the mistakes you can make in this area:

-"Make nice" with your boss. Always smile, be pleasant, even buy a small gift for him/her at the holidays. Doesn't matter if the boss is a good person or not. I'm personally repelled by the idea of being a "kiss-a$$", but this is how things are done in this culture. In China, the bosses play favorites. They don't even care about our western ideas of "fairness" in the workplace. There are usually 2 sets of rules (and consequences)- those for the workers the boss likes, and those for the workers the boss doesn't. You're not going to change this mentality, no matter how unfair and stupid it is. So you can either be treated well or be in the doghouse.

-Don't get angry and explode in front of your boss, if at all possible. If your boss does something colossally stupid/unjust to everyone, let someone else be the hothead and make the confrontation. There will always be someone itching for a fight. I wish i had learned this lesson years ago.

-Choose your battles carefully. You don't want to be a total pushover, but you need to find balance about what you go to war over. I have seen (and been guilty of myself) multiple times where foreign teachers are ready to explode over even the most trivial things. Maybe its culture shock, maybe the small things add up over time. Try to step back and get perspective. That mountain is sometimes a molehill. If it is a mountain, take a step back and try to appeal rationally rather than emotionally.

-If you have to leave early, be ready to make up a good lie. This is hard for a lot of us (especially Americans), but this is how things are done in China. If you're quitting a contract early and going home, make it a really good reason, something that will make your leaving a compassionate affair for your boss. Stupid, yes. But this is what Chinese workers do ALL THE TIME. Quitting is often seen as some sort of personal offront to the boss. I don't get it, but it is.

When in Rome, do as the Romans do. It is an adjustment in thinking, but a few small things like this (and swallowing your ego a bit) can make things MUCH better working in China.

[SearchingChina]

While it wouldn't exactly help get a release letter, any 'boss' who tried messing with my visa, paperwork, or pay would quickly find the tyres slashed on his Audi.

[jmoxley]

Great advice Simon, and noted.

In response to tire slashing, I can't get the Breaking Bad scene out of my head where Walt totally effs up some douchebag's convertible. And there's Michelle Pfeiffer's French supermarket explosion in The Family. Such rewarding scenes!

[Poker Face]

Simon has the best advice if you are determined to return to Guangzhou. But if you lose that battle you can just start fresh with a new school in Shanghai or Beijing and not mention your teaching job/problem in South China.