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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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 Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:33 pm Post subject: Salaries for primary/high school/universities? |
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Hi, still looking for something in China but it's a bit difficult when I've no idea if a job posting represents a 'good' offer or not.
I've seen jobs at primary and high schools be posted at anywhere from 6000rmb to 20000rmb, universities between 4500-9000rmb etc. Because of the large variable in salaries offered for posts that seem similar at first glance, I want to ask what is the usual going rate at these places at Tier 1 cities and Tier 2 cities?
For example:
Shanghai:
Primary:
High School:
University:
Somewhere like Suzhou, Tianjin etc:
Primary:
High School:
University:
Really in the dark concerning what would constitute a good job! Can anyone fill in the blanks who has some China experience? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Think 'Package' |
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Unchained English
Joined: 31 Dec 2014
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Really in the dark concerning what would constitute a good job! |
You should really take the time to figure this on your own. What are the variables important to you? Work conditions? Housing? Schedule? Vacation? Days off? Location? etc...
After you decide what is most important to you, you look at each contract to see how good they are.
Also, realize the hours for kids will be different than older students. Younger kids will usually finish earlier and they often come on weekends. High school students and older usually get their study done during the week. You might have some private 1 on 1 classes with advanced students or teach in a program which schedules you to teach on the weekend in exchange for 1 or 2 weekdays off.
The only reason you are in the dark is that you don't know what you want yet. After you decide that, it's pretty easy.
Before signing a contract post 3 offers you are considering for feedback. This is a better way than requesting other teachers' preferences. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:33 am Post subject: |
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Check out Abroad China.org for a good idea of what schools all over China pay. Then check out this forum's job boards, then look at Serious Teachers.
Go do your homework. Apply at a few schools and get a feel for contracts.
You couldn't ask for more. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| Unchained English wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Really in the dark concerning what would constitute a good job! |
You should really take the time to figure this on your own. What are the variables important to you? Work conditions? Housing? Schedule? Vacation? Days off? Location? etc...
After you decide what is most important to you, you look at each contract to see how good they are.
Also, realize the hours for kids will be different than older students. Younger kids will usually finish earlier and they often come on weekends. High school students and older usually get their study done during the week. You might have some private 1 on 1 classes with advanced students or teach in a program which schedules you to teach on the weekend in exchange for 1 or 2 weekdays off.
The only reason you are in the dark is that you don't know what you want yet. After you decide that, it's pretty easy.
Before signing a contract post 3 offers you are considering for feedback. This is a better way than requesting other teachers' preferences. |
Well I want something where I work Monday-Friday in the daytime, have evenings and weekends free, and have proper holidays. So not a language centre, really. I've taught mostly kids in Korea and would prefer to teach adults but I could go back to teaching kids again if the salary is right...just that I am no longer prepared to suffer having 2 weeks of vacation a year and working in the evenings. Preferably something without 'office hours' as that pisses me off in Korea too.
So, yeah...primary or high schools without office hours...what is the pay for those in tier 1 cities? What about universities? Seen mostly 5000-6000 uni jobs posted so far but they've all been for provinces in the middle of nowhere. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:23 am Post subject: |
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Why don't you do your own homework? When you arrive in China, there'll be nobody here to hold your hand or wipe your nose for you.
Really. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Why don't you do your own homework? When you arrive in China, there'll be nobody here to hold your hand or wipe your nose for you.
Really. |
Well I've tried but salaries for what look to be pretty comparable jobs seem to be all over the place. Just to give an example...
High school in Ningbo, 17000-20000 plus apartment: http://jobs.echinacities.com/jobchapter/1354466421
Another school in Shanghai, with daytime Monday-Friday hours, only 9000-11000 total, plus a housing allowance of only 1000: http://jobs.echinacities.com/jobchapter/1354467529
What I'm asking is which is closer to 'reality' on the ground? Should I be demanding (and expecting) something along the lines of the first offer, or is that basically an anomaly and most schools pay closer to the second offer? |
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Guerciotti
Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 842
Location: In a sleazy bar killing all the bad guys.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:37 am Post subject: |
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| Those jobs are not comparable. Not even close. Please read them again. |
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RW8677
Joined: 16 Sep 2014
Posts: 60
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Why don't you do your own homework? When you arrive in China, there'll be nobody here to hold your hand or wipe your nose for you.
Really. |
Identity of the OP aside....
What is the purpose of message boards such as these?
Is it for people to ask questions and have them answered? To share information? For the elders to help the new?
Or is just a place for withered, bitter elders to be nasty and unhelpful? |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 11:15 am Post subject: |
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Wages vary from province to province and from city to city for reasons that should be obvious to you after you give the thought consideration.
You may find a nearly exact job description of one school that matches that of another except for the pay. One school may pay significantly more than another, and they may even be in the same province, but in nearby cities. The reason why one school pays significantly more may because the school can't attract many teachers. Sometimes, the reason for that is because the higher-paying school is located in a dull, polluted city.
Language mills pay more than public universities because mills are privately owned and command more in tuition (usually).
Kindergarten jobs will usually pay more than university jobs because a classroom full of small children is more stressful and requires more personal resourcefulness than a university class room.
Be critical in your reading.
Go look at abroadchina.com and read the job descriptions. You'll get a good idea of what's out there ALL OVER CHINA. Really. This is something that you need to do on your own, THEN ask for the opinions of others about specific schools and cities.
Information about China is sometimes confusing and often conflicting, I know, but you've got to do your homework--- and do it well in advance of your arrival.
Do a search on Z visas and find out why it seems that the schools wait until the last minute to send them out. Find out why it's a bad idea to come over on a tourist visa.
Good luck. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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So no one can give even ballpark figures then? I'm not asking for wage rates all over China, just what the going rate is in Tier 1 cities really.
Let's say I went to Shanghai, found a public primary school (state owned so they can get the work permit and visa), walked in and asked if they needed an English teacher, and they said yes...what salary should I expect and how do I know if they're lowballing me?
Surely there's got to be some kind of figure we can throw out there? The government must allocate these public schools a similar amount? |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Bud Powell wrote: |
Do a search on Z visas and find out why it seems that the schools wait until the last minute to send them out. |
I'm confused on this bit, BP. Schools don't "send out" Z-visas, the visas are approved and stamped (or not) by Chinese embassies or consulates. Did you mean the sponsor's invitation letter and other documents required to get the visa? |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010
Posts: 4724
Location: China
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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What about universities? Seen mostly 5000-6000 uni jobs posted so far but they've all been for provinces in the middle of nowhere.
As I said before 'think package'. To make comparisons on the basis of monthly salary alone, is not a good practice.
For example a RMB1000 pm apartment allowance in Shanghai is laughable. The same figure in Dandong is OK.
Another factor is that salary and location don't always mesh.
My FAO in Qingdao made no secret of the fact that he kept salaries at the low end because FTs saw QD as a desirable location.
There was a thread a while ago, titled 'Job Offer Checklist'.
See if you can find it.
But 5/6000pm is about right for your bog standard uni 20-hour gig. |
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Bud Powell
Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 1736
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| Posted: Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mysterytrain wrote: |
| Bud Powell wrote: |
Do a search on Z visas and find out why it seems that the schools wait until the last minute to send them out. |
I'm confused on this bit, BP. Schools don't "send out" Z-visas, the visas are approved and stamped (or not) by Chinese embassies or consulates. Did you mean the sponsor's invitation letter and other documents required to get the visa? |
I meant the invitations that one submits to one's local consulate to secure a Z visa.
Thank you for asking me to clarify. |
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Simon in Suzhou
Joined: 09 Aug 2011
Posts: 404
Location: GZ
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| Posted: Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:50 am Post subject: |
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| SearchingChina wrote: |
So no one can give even ballpark figures then? I'm not asking for wage rates all over China, just what the going rate is in Tier 1 cities really.
Let's say I went to Shanghai, found a public primary school (state owned so they can get the work permit and visa), walked in and asked if they needed an English teacher, and they said yes...what salary should I expect and how do I know if they're lowballing me?
Surely there's got to be some kind of figure we can throw out there? The government must allocate these public schools a similar amount? |
As others have said, there is a huge variance in salaries for a variety of reasons. You cannot compare public school jobs to those back home where the govt allowances are pretty much the same for each school in a region.
A public high school might have a principal who studied abroad and thinks English education is super important and pay twice what the school next door pays because the principal would rather use that allotment for booze and broads. Or maybe they are just putting that govt money into the science budget and don't hire a foreign teacher at all.
Every COUNTY has a different allotment of cash for education depending on the wealth of the county. So schools in inner Mongolia are generally SUPER POOR except in the county of Ordos, which has huge oil, coal, and natural gas production. Even the countryside schools in that county look nicer than those in Shanghai. Yet 5 miles across the county border the public school looks like a 3rd world country with dirt floors.
You are not getting low-balled. For the most part, they make an offer and you either take it or leave it. You may be able to negotiate slightly depending on how desperate they are for a teacher, but not much realistically in your first job from abroad. I have found negotiation to be overrated in China, unless you have worked for a school, they know you and like you, and you are renewing your contract. In essence, they know what they are going to pay for a foreign teacher and they don't care much about what you want. Many public schools will go without a foreign teacher rather than negotiating a higher salary.
All that glitters is not gold on the internet. High salary jobs are often not what they appear (bait and switch from recruiters) or that 20,000 is the maximum salary they would theoretically give to a PHD with 20 years experience...but they wil pay you 8000. The best jobs in China are NOT found on the internet, they are acquired through word of mouth. I always recommend a newbie find a stable, low-stress, lower-paying job in their first year rather than jumping at the highest salary offered. It's much easier to find a subsequent better job on the ground and be able to assess the quality of the job by actually knowing and talking to people who work there. That is, unless you are a hermit who never talks to anyone (there are plenty here!), in which case you will still be blindly searching the internet again and hoping for the best.
You need to think about how much money you need, how many hours you want to work, and where you want to live. Are you the type of person who wants to work in your free time to scramble for privates and extra cash? Or do you want to work your mon-fri job and relax in the evenings and weekends? If the former, you need to be in a big city with wealthier people around who are looking for a tutor. Take a job in a tier 1 city with low hours and maybe a lower salary and go for it. If the latter, find a place that makes you happy, a job with a salary you can live with, and enjoy your life. For many people, LOCATION is the difference between happiness and misery in China, much more than salary.
So yeah, all that is to say we CAN'T give you even a rough estimate of salaries. A tier 2 city in Guangdong is different from a tier 2 city in Hubei. Not even close. And the schools even in the same province are not comparable. Just figure out what YOU NEED, then job search accordingly. |
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