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The_Big_White_Elephant
Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 56
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 Posted: Sat Jan 24, 2015 10:51 pm Post subject: What exactly is a "CELTA equivalent"? |
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Does "CELTA equivalent" basically refer to any course that consists of at least 120-hours of class time and at least 6 hours of practice teaching time?
Will most schools in China accept this kind of certificate? Would it be worth it to get one? Would I be at a significant disadvantage for not having a real CELTA?
Also, if anybody has taken the CELTA, I was wondering:
1) Is admission into a CELTA course generally competitive?
2) Is it easy to pass the CELTA course if you are diligent student and work hard?
I'm looking at the CELTA courses in Vietnam and Thailand since they are only around $1500, but I'm nervous that they will either be extremely competitive to get admitted to, or they will be extremely difficult with a high probability of failure.
At this point, I feel like I would prefer to take a CELTA equivalent rather than the actual CELTA, because I'm sure an equivalent would be less stressful and cheaper
So I am trying to weigh the pros and cons. Is the extra difficulty of a CELTA worth it? Or will an equivalent be just fine for getting a job in China?
Some background info: I'm a university student who will be graduating soon, have no teaching experience, and plan to teach for at least a few years, and possibly make a career out of it if I enjoy it.
Thanks!
Last edited by The_Big_White_Elephant on Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:39 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:16 am Post subject: |
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As a CELTA tutor who doesn't actually have a CELTA I can answer some of your questions fairly well.
A CELTA can be competitive to get on, it all depends where the course is being run. Sometimes we have to reject people based on a badly written application form or interview but sometimes we're struggling to fill the spaces and take non-native speakers with questionable English. Basically tutors want people who are going to pass the course and not cause any trouble so we tend to reject potential nutters, egotists and those who'll struggle with the language.
The answer to the second question is linked to this. If you're reasonably intelligent and 'get' what's being taught, you'll have no problems. The people who fail either just don't get what it's all about or think they know better. The CELTA is not about discussing and arguing teaching methodology - do an Ma if you want to do that - it's about being able to show you have the potential to teach in a certain specific and prescribed style.
As you say a CELTA equivalent means the same number of hours and structure as a CELTA. I went for a cheaper option when starting out and regretted it a few times over the years. I had to prove the worth of my course on a few occasions and got rejected from a couple of jobs. It wasn't a major hassle but definitely not worth the money I'd saved by doing a CELTA a equivalent.
So my advice would be spend the extra money and feel confident about passing the course. Unless you're a dummy/nutter/know it all, you'll be fine. |
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The_Big_White_Elephant
Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:41 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for the thorough reply bograt! That was very helpful.
Do you happen to know anything specifically about the CELTA programs in Bangkok or Hanoi? I would guess that the Bangkok program is quite competitive since Thailand is a popular destination...I'm thinking the Hanoi one sounds like my best bet, but that one could be competitive too. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| The_Big_White_Elephant wrote: |
Thanks for the thorough reply bograt! That was very helpful.
Do you happen to know anything specifically about the CELTA programs in Bangkok or Hanoi? I would guess that the Bangkok program is quite competitive since Thailand is a popular destination...I'm thinking the Hanoi one sounds like my best bet, but that one could be competitive too. |
Why not apply for both and see where you get accepted? |
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The_Big_White_Elephant
Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:12 am Post subject: |
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| Why not apply for both and see where you get accepted? |
Because I'm lazy, haha. Seriously, interviews and applications are my worst nightmare.
I will probably apply for both though... |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| Unless you've got inside information indicating that a course has low enrollment and you're a shoe-in, I think that's your best bet. Besides, doesn't the CELTA application have standardized application questions for all of their sites. It seems that you'd simply be able to fill out one and then cut and paste your answers into the other. Ditto for interview prep. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:41 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| If you're reasonably intelligent and 'get' what's being taught, you'll have no problems. The people who fail either just don't get what it's all about or think they know better. |
Bograt's said it all very well, but I'd add one criteria to the list above. Expect to have to work very hard indeed, and to plan your time efficiently. On rare occasions, I've seen able candidates fail courses due to simply failing to understand that while you're on the course, other aspects of life have to take a very serious back seat. The courses are intensive!
I'm familiar with a number of CELTA equivalent courses. They aren't easier than a CELTA, and their success/fail rates and standards are very similar. Usually better to go for the brand name. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:08 am Post subject: |
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Wait, there's actually a process to be accepted onto a CELTA course?
There's people queuing up to pay someone $1,500 for a mickey mouse qualification that won't increase your salary in any way since most ESL employers don't even know what it is? Where do I sign? 
I can understand doing an MA since that opens doors that wouldn't be opened otherwise (i.e. Joint venture uni programs for a decent salary, as well as Middle East work if you're after chasing the cash). But a CELTA? If the job advert wants a certificate just do one of those cheap $99 courses off the internet, literally no employer can tell the difference or is even aware that there's a difference unless you happen to be applying to the British Council. |
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SH_Panda
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| SearchingChina wrote: |
Wait, there's actually a process to be accepted onto a CELTA course?
There's people queuing up to pay someone $1,500 for a mickey mouse qualification that won't increase your salary in any way since most ESL employers don't even know what it is? Where do I sign?
I can understand doing an MA since that opens doors that wouldn't be opened otherwise (i.e. Joint venture uni programs for a decent salary, as well as Middle East work if you're after chasing the cash). But a CELTA? If the job advert wants a certificate just do one of those cheap $99 courses off the internet, literally no employer can tell the difference or is even aware that there's a difference unless you happen to be applying to the British Council. |
In China, yeah.
In countries that value the CELTA, no. |
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bograt
Joined: 12 Nov 2014
Posts: 331
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Wait, there's actually a process to be accepted onto a CELTA course?
There's people queuing up to pay someone $1,500 for a mickey mouse qualification that won't increase your salary in any way since most ESL employers don't even know what it is? Where do I sign? Laughing
I can understand doing an MA since that opens doors that wouldn't be opened otherwise (i.e. Joint venture uni programs for a decent salary, as well as Middle East work if you're after chasing the cash). But a CELTA? If the job advert wants a certificate just do one of those cheap $99 courses off the internet, literally no employer can tell the difference or is even aware that there's a difference unless you happen to be applying to the British Council. |
You're looking at the short term, and that's fair enough if you're dead set an entry level job in China is your limit. The OP said he's thinking of making a career of TEFL so it'll probably be useful somewhere down the line. An MA will open some doors, a CELTA will open different ones. E.g. You mentioned the British Council which require a CELTA (or equiv) for entry (not an MA) and for IELTS testing which is an excellent side job. I'll give you another example. I do teacher training for the Hong Kong EDB who pay very well but are very particular about trainers' qualifications. They wanted evidence, not only of my MA and DELTA but of my CELTA equiv too before giving me work.
| Quote: |
| There's people queuing up to pay someone $1,500 for a mickey mouse qualification |
Yeah, I hear this all the time and it's always from people who've never done one. I personally wouldn't slag something off I knew nothing about but meh. I think it's a good course for starting out in TEFL and believe it or not, many people do it just to become a better teacher. As I said sometimes you don't get enough applications and sometimes you get too many and have to have a selection process. Failing someone is a big deal and they almost always make an official complaint about it so you need all your ducks in a row and it makes for a lot of extra work. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
You're looking at the short term, and that's fair enough if you're dead set an entry level job in China is your limit. The OP said he's thinking of making a career of TEFL so it'll probably be useful somewhere down the line. An MA will open some doors, a CELTA will open different ones. E.g. You mentioned the British Council which require a CELTA (or equiv) for entry (not an MA) and for IELTS testing which is an excellent side job. I'll give you another example. I do teacher training for the Hong Kong EDB who pay very well but are very particular about trainers' qualifications. They wanted evidence, not only of my MA and DELTA but of my CELTA equiv too before giving me work. |
IELTS testing is the same thing as the BC. The jobs that you can get with a CELTA that you wouldn't otherwise be able to is extremely few. Stuff like your age, skin colour, and passport will always be more important than this particular qualification.
| bograt wrote: |
Yeah, I hear this all the time and it's always from people who've never done one. I personally wouldn't slag something off I knew nothing about but meh. I think it's a good course for starting out in TEFL and believe it or not, many people do it just to become a better teacher. As I said sometimes you don't get enough applications and sometimes you get too many and have to have a selection process. Failing someone is a big deal and they almost always make an official complaint about it so you need all your ducks in a row and it makes for a lot of extra work. |
If a qualification doesn't lead to a higher salary, it's a mickey mouse qualification IMO. Irrespective of whether it makes you better at your job or not, that's irrelevant if it's not reflected in a salary increase. It's also phenomenally expensive when you consider what the average EFL salary is, they're basically asking for one whole months average ESL wages for this piece of paper, plus the opportunity cost of not working for that month (so, another months wages then). How long is the payback period for that investment? Got my doubts it'll ever pay for itself personally.
I just can't believe there's actually competition to get onto these things. The world has truly gone mad. It's like new graduates back home actually paying companies to work for them just so they can get work experience. Load of nonsense IMO but fools and their money, I guess. |
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SH_Panda
Joined: 31 May 2011
Posts: 455
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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| bograt wrote: |
| Quote: |
Wait, there's actually a process to be accepted onto a CELTA course?
There's people queuing up to pay someone $1,500 for a mickey mouse qualification that won't increase your salary in any way since most ESL employers don't even know what it is? Where do I sign? Laughing
I can understand doing an MA since that opens doors that wouldn't be opened otherwise (i.e. Joint venture uni programs for a decent salary, as well as Middle East work if you're after chasing the cash). But a CELTA? If the job advert wants a certificate just do one of those cheap $99 courses off the internet, literally no employer can tell the difference or is even aware that there's a difference unless you happen to be applying to the British Council. |
'
You're looking at the short term, and that's fair enough if you're dead set an entry level job in China is your limit. The OP said he's thinking of making a career of TEFL so it'll probably be useful somewhere down the line. An MA will open some doors, a CELTA will open different ones. E.g. You mentioned the British Council which require a CELTA (or equiv) for entry (not an MA) and for IELTS testing which is an excellent side job. I'll give you another example. I do teacher training for the Hong Kong EDB who pay very well but are very particular about trainers' qualifications. They wanted evidence, not only of my MA and DELTA but of my CELTA equiv too before giving me work.
| Quote: |
| There's people queuing up to pay someone $1,500 for a mickey mouse qualification |
Yeah, I hear this all the time and it's always from people who've never done one. I personally wouldn't slag something off I knew nothing about but meh. I think it's a good course for starting out in TEFL and believe it or not, many people do it just to become a better teacher. As I said sometimes you don't get enough applications and sometimes you get too many and have to have a selection process. Failing someone is a big deal and they almost always make an official complaint about it so you need all your ducks in a row and it makes for a lot of extra work. |
It's really interesting to hear from somebody at the heart of it all.
What do people generally fail on? |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject: |
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Do a CELTA or other challenging TEFL course because it will give you confidence teaching English abroad. You'll likely have more tools available to salvage lessons that don't seem to be going well. You'll likely have a better idea of what challenges English learners have and what the major stumbling blocks are.
Will it lead to an increase in salary in China? Hard to say. Possibly, if it improves your teaching and that better teaching makes you more popular and schools will pay you more to stay, or another school will pay you to change schools. On the other hand, if you know what you are doing in a classroom, your work life may be less stressful, which is even more valuable in my opinion.
On the other, other hand, if you just got into teaching English abroad for the money, my only argument is: what money? Don't get into this work as a career for the money! There are better paying jobs in almost every sector. Do it short-term for a chance to travel and experience other cultures and other countries, etc. Short-term, it'll probably be more rewarding if one feels a sense of professional pride in their work, which such a course can help to develop. Long-term, you should really love the job because it isn't generally very rewarding financially compared to other industries. Improving your abilities to teach is one way to increase the chance that you will end up loving it. |
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SearchingChina
Joined: 06 Jan 2015
Posts: 54
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| roadwalker wrote: |
Do a CELTA or other challenging TEFL course because it will give you confidence teaching English abroad. You'll likely have more tools available to salvage lessons that don't seem to be going well. You'll likely have a better idea of what challenges English learners have and what the major stumbling blocks are.
Will it lead to an increase in salary in China? Hard to say. Possibly, if it improves your teaching and that better teaching makes you more popular and schools will pay you more to stay, or another school will pay you to change schools. On the other hand, if you know what you are doing in a classroom, your work life may be less stressful, which is even more valuable in my opinion.
On the other, other hand, if you just got into teaching English abroad for the money, my only argument is: what money? Don't get into this work as a career for the money! There are better paying jobs in almost every sector. Do it short-term for a chance to travel and experience other cultures and other countries, etc. Short-term, it'll probably be more rewarding if one feels a sense of professional pride in their work, which such a course can help to develop. Long-term, you should really love the job because it isn't generally very rewarding financially compared to other industries. Improving your abilities to teach is one way to increase the chance that you will end up loving it. |
If you're only going to be in ESL short term there's even less chance the CELTA pays for itself.
If you're going to be in it long term, you'll need to be getting an MA eventually (which essentially overrides the CELTA unless you specifically want to work for the British Council).
As for financially, I agree to an extent (it's not rewarding financially, but then again I'm not convinced a lot of people 'back home' are really any better off) but that only makes the cost of the CELTA even more of a rip off. $1,500 plus a month off work plus probably some accomodation, give me a break. And there's competition for this??
World has gone mad. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Sun Jan 25, 2015 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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There's people queuing up to pay someone $1,500 for a mickey mouse qualification that won't increase your salary in any way since most ESL employers don't even know what it is? Where do I sign? Laughing
I can understand doing an MA since that opens doors that wouldn't be opened otherwise (i.e. Joint venture uni programs for a decent salary, as well as Middle East work if you're after chasing the cash). But a CELTA? If the job advert wants a certificate just do one of those cheap $99 courses off the internet, literally no employer can tell the difference or is even aware that there's a difference unless you happen to be applying to the British Council. |
Without a CELTA or equivalent, you're basically limited to the parts of Asia that require no cert at all. Europe, Latin America, and Anglophone countries generally all expect a CELTA or equivalent as a basic entry level qualification. Without one, your CV simply gets nowhere.
This would be one of the reasons that experience teaching in Asia isn't always valued on other job markets. Just having done the job is absolutely no guarantee that you've done it well. And most parts of the world don't care if you're blonde and good looking, so that won't help.
| Quote: |
| If you're going to be in it long term, you'll need to be getting an MA eventually (which essentially overrides the CELTA unless you specifically want to work for the British Council). |
This is also inaccurate. If one does a theory-focused MA, the CELTA is still required - it's the supervised teaching practice that counts. Some MAs offer this component, and others don't. |
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