Job Discussion Forums

[RickBlaine]

What's going on currently at Vinnell and Raytheon in Saudi? Past information posted here hasn't been that positive, but I've heard there have been a lot of changes with both companies. How are the students? What is the management like? Is there decent housing?

Please drop me a line if you currently work at Raytheon or Vinnell or recently left.

Thanks,
RB
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[LPKSA]

I would rather hang out at chop chop square all day than with a bunch of dudes.

[water rat]

Vinnell Arabia: AAAC. Avoid at all costs! Every single supervisor and mid-level manager is a total whack job.

[water rat]

Vinnell Arabia: AAAC. Avoid at all costs! Every single supervisor and mid-level manager is a total whack job.

[RickBlaine]

Good to hear from you, water rat. However, you'll have to be more specific. I've worked with whack jobs, flaming queens, desperate straight guys, alcoholics, drug addicts and everything else during previous stints in Saudi. I'm mainly wondering the following:

Are the students at least a little civilized?
Do I get paid on time?
Are the "whack jobs" in management out to screw over teachers or are they just generally nuts?
Is the housing liveable?
Do they grant multiple exits visas?

Thanks,
RB

[water rat]

Are the students at least a little civilized?
Yes, top drawer. Better than most Saudi because the are over 30 and military officers. However, there was one guy that was such an asshat I actually pitied his wife/wives. A thing I have never done before in all my years and thousands of students...
Do I get paid on time?
Yes, but no advances or loans ever.
Are the "whack jobs" in management out to screw over teachers or are they just generally nuts?
Specifically nuts. How much time do you have? There is one guy who has lived in the compound ten years. Never goes away on holiday, even to another part of Arabia. Never socializes with his colleagues. Another has bad OCD. Will play chess with you, but makes notations about every move. Another is a passive aggressive bully jerk. The chief is a control freak. So yes, the highest ups are indeed there to screw teachers over. They like to make examples of teachers they dislike. You can be 'written up' for wearing the wrong color socks despite the fact that you wear military boots with the pantlegs tucked in.(If they dislike you)
Is the housing liveable?
I hear not. Moved into shared apartments on the military base, share washers with other apartments, noisy ex-military drunken neighbors (lots of moonshine) - built on the site of the former apartments that were bombed. (How's that for livable? More like possibly fatal)
Do they grant multiple exits visas?
Yes, but with much slowness and rigamarole. To be fair, not Vinnell's fault. They got some oppressed and patient Saudi employees who go to the embassies and wherever for you. You must plan ahead if you want to go out for a holiday of any length of time - months in advance.

[BajaLaJaula]

Actually SALTS...is the employer. Raytheon just takes the first cut off the top.
I suspect there will be changes in the next year. As with all military in Saudi, it is a Social program. Cadets are given job in the military in the hopes that they don't end up becoming a problem for the Al-Saud mafia. So they are not motivated to learn and have absolutely no desire to achieve anything. (Not their fault....it is the system in which they live).
Management, doesn't care about you and are only there to take their cut....so no families allowed since this cuts in on their profits.
Salaries are probably the highest or one of the highest paying in the kingdom for babysitting students, but I fear that this will change in the coming year.
The Saudi military are not dumb and are becoming even more business savvy. However they are being forced to stick with current language provider because of the hardware that they produce...teaching English is a forced add-on to the contract and the Saudi military is well aware that it is not working. Students are not learning English...Why would they pay double for a teacher that is going the give you the same results as one for half the price? And the result is a class of cadets that still doesn't understand....What's your name?....after 9 months of full-time English instruction. At some point they will be allowed to shop around for a better solution and this part of their contract will undoubtedly be taken off....So...still want to buy your hardware but don't really want your overpriced and underperforming English school.
The compound is nice though. First class accommodations. they even have socials once a month...like movie night....or schwarma night...where food is provided...as long as you don't mind being treated like a second class citizen...remember subcontracted employees are not as high up on the pecking order as direct hire RAY RAY folks.
In short, it is a good gig as long as you are close to retirement and just want a couple of years to pad the savings account....and have given up on a career with any potential for advancement or job satisfaction. The money is good...but for how much longer???

[RickBlaine]

Actually SALTS...is the employer. Raytheon just takes the first cut off the top.
I suspect there will be changes in the next year.

Because of the new king?

As with all military in Saudi, it is a Social program. Cadets are given job in the military in the hopes that they don't end up becoming a problem for the Al-Saud mafia. So they are not motivated to learn and have absolutely no desire to achieve anything. (Not their fault....it is the system in which they live).

100% correct. Been there done that. Will probably do it again soon to pay a few bills.

Management, doesn't care about you and are only there to take their cut....so no families allowed since this cuts in on their profits.
Salaries are probably the highest or one of the highest paying in the kingdom for babysitting students, but I fear that this will change in the coming year.

Is Raytheon negotiating a new contract with the Saudis?

The Saudi military are not dumb and are becoming even more business savvy. However they are being forced to stick with current language provider because of the hardware that they produce...teaching English is a forced add-on to the contract and the Saudi military is well aware that it is not working. Students are not learning English...Why would they pay double for a teacher that is going the give you the same results as one for half the price? And the result is a class of cadets that still doesn't understand....What's your name?....after 9 months of full-time English instruction.

hahahaha...I've seen that. My favorite is speaking to a former student and asking, "How's it going?" Response: "Bathroom"

At some point they will be allowed to shop around for a better solution and this part of their contract will undoubtedly be taken off....So...still want to buy your hardware but don't really want your overpriced and underperforming English school.

You make a good point and I'm surprised it hasn't already happened. But with English instruction tied to the hardware contract, I'm not sure how that will happen. Who knows what the Saudis have up their sleeve?

The compound is nice though. First class accommodations. they even have socials once a month...like movie night....or schwarma night...where food is provided...as long as you don't mind being treated like a second class citizen...remember subcontracted employees are not as high up on the pecking order as direct hire RAY RAY folks.

I thought SALTS was part of Raytheon? If I apply for an English teaching job by going to Raytheon's site, I won't be a direct hire?

In short, it is a good gig as long as you are close to retirement and just want a couple of years to pad the savings account....and have given up on a career with any potential for advancement or job satisfaction. The money is good...but for how much longer???

I'm far from retirement, but I'd like to make a few bucks as long as the gravy train lasts.

Thanks,
RB

[BajaLaJaula]

this is last year of a 5 year contract....if I am not mistaken. So yes they will be renegotiating....and anything Is possible, but hard to believe that the high salary will stay intact since all other outfits...Vinnell...Booz...B3H...all offer considerably less money.
New King...maybe new plan....anything is possible.
Raytheon just does the interviewing....once you are hired...you will have nothing to do with Raytheon other than living on a compound where their employees happen live as well.
You can go for it...but it is a dead end job and I strongly suspect that cuts in salary and benefits are on the horizon...since everyone else has already done it.

[RickBlaine]

I see. SALTS and Raytheon sound like ASE and Booz Allen and Vinnell and Northrup Grumman. Right?

I'll keep watching what happens with these companies as I get closer to applying.

Thanks,
RB