Job Discussion Forums

[mcloo7]

I interviewed with a placement agency in Shenzhen and they said they don't pay the teachers for winter break. It's for public primary and high schools, and maybe also international schools. I've never heard of public schools not paying teachers for winter break. How common is this?

[Son of Bud Powell]

Public schools where I have taught have become more conscious of their FTs' energy consumption. In one school, they herded everyone off campus to live in a hotel for February, then they did it again in the summer (most of us had arrived February and were not on September -July cycles). Of course, that didn't last long before everyone bugged out.

At another public school, we were encouraged to travel for the month of february. Everyone stayed home and burned up the electricity to stay warm. The school thought it cheaper to send us all home for the summer and bring us back on its dime.

None of this was in our contracts.

When we returned, the central air conditioner didn't begin working until October. Then in mid-November when we needed heat, there wasn't much of that (perhaps 2 degrees warmer than the temperature inside the apartments).

I don't know if not paying teachers for the winter is common throughout China, but where I have taught for the past several years, austerity programs in general seemed to be becoming increasingly pretty common .

[RiverMystic]

Work contacts in Australia are becoming more like this too, ripping off workers. My previous job was at a prestigious college affiliated with Australia's top ranking uni. They put us on six month contracts, ending at Chrustmas, thus avoiding the requirement to pay us for the six weeks of summer break. They then classified our workload as 0.9 (during term), thus cutting another ten per cent of our salary off. In the end this equated to a salary of little more than AUS$50 000 a year - pathetic for a PhD. I couldn't even afford to rent an apartment on that salary, and was renting a room. Now you know why I returned to China.

[zacharybilton]

I find the comment of "ripping off workers" hilarious. How is it ripping off?

While I agree that they should provide this and that for the winter, including salary, you need to look at it from a PROPER point of view - business. Why should you be paid for NOT WORKING for 8 weeks? Why exactly?

If you signed the contract, you have ZERO right to come here and complain about not being paid for summer or winter vacations. Why should a school pay your salary if you return home, travel, or whatever for 2 months? If you want something, then negotiate it before signing a contract.

I'm really confused.

Also, PhD, why are you working in China exactly and returned for such miserable conditions, as you state.

Back to the ACTUAL question - since public school are government funded and run, it follows government rules and regulations. And, fact is, you don't get paid for the holidays. Aren't you even aware that Chinese people only get 1/5 of their listed salary during summer and winter holidays? Either accept the process or never agree to it in the first-place.

Regardless of "None of it was in our contracts" ... fact is, you are required to follow and abide by the customs, rules, laws, and regulations of China. Ignorance of the facts is not an excuse to demand more.

I will say again however, I you should get paid for holidays. I never had a job that didn't pay me full salary for the entire 12 months of my one year contract - and I would never accept one that didn't. I work only at universities and that's how I do it. Schools have the ability to give you more, but not less than the law states.

[Son of Bud Powell]

Schools have the ability to give you more, but not less than the law states.

Not so fast.

Legally, they're not allowed to, but some do. At two public vocational colleges where I taught ,it was a constant battle with the FAO and administration to comply with the terms of the contract. When I arrived at one school, the televisions had been removed from the FT's rooms. The contract stipulated that cable TV would be provided by the school. Per my contract, I was to be paid for English Corners (which were held at 9:00 a.m. on Saturdays), but the FAO would pay for only two of the FTs who were there before I arrived--- whether they showed up for EC or not.

I was told that there was zero recourse except to go to the school's president (who I found out had quit at the beginning of the term). The VP was in Nanjing and would be there for the duration of the semester because he was an adjunct professor there and didn't feel like commuting. There were frequently pay disputes regarding overtime for classes that were sprung on us the day before (babysitting for Chinese teachers). We fixed that by refusing to do anyone any favors. If it wasn't in our contract, we didn't do it. I want to believe that these schools are the exception. I don't consider having worked for them. I consider them just terrible little nightmares; they don't even appear on my resume.

One seems to be less likely to fall prey to shysters in public institutions. The biggest problem is incompetence.

I wouldn't say that public schools are 100% on the up and up, but I hear fewer complaints about them, the worst of which is the never changing confusion regarding starting days, holidays, and special events.

[rioux]

[asiannationmc]

[Son of Bud Powell]

[Non Sequitur]

I'm concerned to learn that Winter break isn't being paid. That is for people who signed a 10 month gig Sept to June.
The points being made about cold apartments is worth noting. Being from the Sthn Hemisphere a visit home in January lands me in summer.
Before I wised up I came back to China one week before Spring semester started (it was a ticketing issue) and my apartment was an icebox.
On the holiday issue I had thought our battle was to get at least one month of summer paid if we re signed for a further year. Now it seems we could be fighting a hollowing out of mid contract benefits.
Be afraid..

[hdeth]

I started about 2/3 through the first semester so I have a ~12 month contract. Winter and summer fully paid. Private high school though.

I would only accept unpaid holidays if the regular pay was quite high. I used to run my own business and paid holidays are freaking amazing. Just psychologically pleasing. Before I used to think how much money I was losing when planning a vacation. Now I think that the beer I'm drinking is on the school.

All our apartments are normal rentals where they have to make a one-time payment for a winter's worth of heat and all have AC which is nice. AC is on us but like hell I'll be here during summer vacation.

[Markness]

Do the Chinese staff get paid holidays? Yes. Should you? Yes. If they don't then tough luck. I worked at one school who pulled that stunt and left during the summer break. It's not an employers market. Employers need to stop trying to rip their employees off when they're in demand. The greed is sickening sometimes. The 10 month contracts are for backpackers, no one else should say yes to that trash. The standards need to get better, not worse. It's a beauty because these sorts of things paint China with a bad brush and therefore keeps a lot of the "safe" people out of here who are trying to land some work. Limits my competition and makes me more money in the end. Win-win situation as long as you know how to negotiate.

TLDR; say no to the 10 month contracts/low wages. There's enough people willing to pay a very fair wage to have a white face in the building... er, international presence I mean of course!

[Non Sequitur]

Don't agree.
The paid summer is there as an inducement for those teachers who are up to it, to re-sign for a further period.

[Markness]

[Non Sequitur]

[RiverMystic]