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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: Does anyone teach old school method (without technology)? |
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I was wondering if any of you are able to teach 'old school method' with your Chinese university students, or is using technology, a pre-requisite to success in the classroom with regard to keeping the students engaged and eager to come to class?
Can a teacher who just goes to the classroom with books, and uses the blackboard still be successful in a university setting? I personally think that the lecturer who only uses books and chalk would face a challenge, but I knew some teachers in Saudi who were 'old school' in the classroom, never used technology - didn't even know how to send an attachment by email...but were considered 'great teachers' in Saudi, thanks to great knowledge of the subject and a dynamic personality.
In China, however, I get the impression, that using technology is a plus, because students in Asia love to use visuals and anything to do with computers, etc.
Comments, thoughts?
Ghost in China |
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zacharybilton
Joined: 23 Apr 2015 Posts: 118
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:04 am Post subject: |
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I use the chalkboard, but hate chalk dust. Occasionally, I will have a single Word document on the overheard/computer projector - a still, no color, non-animated, etc. that has vocabulary with Chinese translation should I think it is relevant I give them the most correct translation. It saves me from attempting to write a few dozen Chinese words on the board.
I use chalk and paper handouts when I need them.
University students need not be engaged with animations and cool clip-art or movies and so on. Not if you're a real teacher that is. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 583
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
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I was the only English teacher at my uni who used technology. They were considered 'great teachers' if they showed up on time and sober, reasonably clean and dressed. At the uni I worked at the freshman classrooms didn't have any technology to speak of.
Old school in this context pretty much means lazy. No, you shouldn't be dependent entirely upon technology but being able to throw text and images up on a projector screen is undeniably helpful, especially since Chinese students tend to have better reading skills than listening. Plus then you can upload the file and they can review the lesson (if you aren't using a textbook or the textbook was too horrible to use).
I taught one normal class at the uni as well as English. Can't imagine doing it without a computer. They could barely understand oral English. Can't imagine trying to teach American history or something just scribbling words on the board and depending on them to understand what you're saying. I remember some students had no idea what their teachers were doing....didn't understand a thing. Just kinda nodded and went along with it because they didn't want to seem stupid. Especially non-native teachers....the students couldn't understand a damn thing they said. Ask them what the lesson was about and they'd be like "she wrote some stuff on the board, played some song, and wrote some more words on the board."
EDIT:
Should add the school very strongly discouraged making copies (it costs money). Many things I would have preferred to do as handouts but making copies was such a pain I used powerpoint. |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Posts: 589 Location: Shanghai, China
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
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In subject classes I use technology to show pictures, videos, and play speeches but I use the blackboard to deliver content. In oral English classes I do it old school with chalk, blackboard, and worksheets when applicable. I think showing PPT presentations kind of defeats the purpose of an oral English class. |
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GreatApe
Joined: 11 Apr 2012 Posts: 582 Location: South of Heaven and East of Nowhere
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:28 am Post subject: |
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bilton wrote:
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Not if you're a real teacher that is. |
LMAO. ... and a "real" close-minded one, at that!
Never mind things like student learning styles, teaching methodology and strategies, or the importance of technology in the 21st century classroom.
Your posts read like a xenophobic troll, but at least you're a "real" teacher. Although I don't remember having read of your qualifications while you've been busying trolling away. Seems you're qualified in getting a new ISP every so often, however, so you can re-hash you're same old, washed-up arguments on these boards.
--GA |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:29 am Post subject: the long and the short of it |
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I think showing PPT presentations kind of defeats the purpose of an oral English class. |
PPT presentations can be used in conjunction with an oral English class, but I agree that it should not be done or used for the entire duration of the class. Typically, I see around 8 different classes once a week for 1.5 hours, or two 45" minute periods. During the first 45" minutes I use some PPTs and visuals, and the second period is focused on vocabulary and grunt work and speaking practice. It seems to be ok, but I know that some teachers do it with more panache and conviction than I do.
The students here love 'activities' but that is not really my thing, so I prefer partly PPT presentations, or using word documents which I project, with things like idioms, pronunciation things, and other documents of interest. You are right - these students are very visual and do well with remembering the printed form.
Sometimes I have computer problems at home, and the original question of this thread was whether you think it would be ok to just go into class with the bare minimum - meaning 'the book' and using the blackboard and chalk? Answers, I think, will vary on that one. Personally - I think some great teachers can 'pull off' a great lesson with a minimum of equipment through sheer dynamism, personality and using their little 'magic box of tricks' which may be different things, such as games, or anecdotes, or role plays. Most of us, though, need some solid preparation for those kinds of classes. Visuals and PPTs are good, I think, but I think you need balance. But, having said that, I know some teachers who never use any visuals or PPTs or anything to do with technology. They are not necessarily technophobes or luddites, but they are often opposed to what they think is an over reliance on technology to teach and engage students in a classroom. They hark back to earlier times, when there was no technology in the classroom.
Another teacher at this place, uses PPTs to great affect and seems to get good reviews from students. He does not overload the PPTs with too much text, though, so he keeps it to a manageable level.
Ghost in China |
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Shanghai Noon
Joined: 18 Aug 2013 Posts: 589 Location: Shanghai, China
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 7:41 am Post subject: Re: the long and the short of it |
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ghost wrote: |
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I think showing PPT presentations kind of defeats the purpose of an oral English class. |
PPT presentations can be used in conjunction with an oral English class, but I agree that it should not be done or used for the entire duration of the class. Typically, I see around 8 different classes once a week for 1.5 hours, or two 45" minute periods. During the first 45" minutes I use some PPTs and visuals, and the second period is focused on vocabulary and grunt work and speaking practice. It seems to be ok, but I know that some teachers do it with more panache and conviction than I do.
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I see. My speaking classes are only 40 minutes long. I typically introduce 5 - 10 new sentence structures, and have them do the activity. I think I would be hard-pressed to come up with 90 minutes of activities. |
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hdeth
Joined: 20 Jan 2015 Posts: 583
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 8:44 am Post subject: Re: the long and the short of it |
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Shanghai Noon wrote: |
ghost wrote: |
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I think showing PPT presentations kind of defeats the purpose of an oral English class. |
PPT presentations can be used in conjunction with an oral English class, but I agree that it should not be done or used for the entire duration of the class. Typically, I see around 8 different classes once a week for 1.5 hours, or two 45" minute periods. During the first 45" minutes I use some PPTs and visuals, and the second period is focused on vocabulary and grunt work and speaking practice. It seems to be ok, but I know that some teachers do it with more panache and conviction than I do.
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I see. My speaking classes are only 40 minutes long. I typically introduce 5 - 10 new sentence structures, and have them do the activity. I think I would be hard-pressed to come up with 90 minutes of activities. |
PPTs can be a huge time-saver for shorter classes. If you want to introduce some sentences or an activity, you just throw up the slide instead of having to write everything out, or have to go over it orally several times. If you want to correct their English you can type it in very quickly while they're finishing off a skit or something (everyone should be able to type 70+ wpm by now) so you get both an oral correction and they can read it as well to see the sentence structure. My students couldn't understand my corrections unless I wrote them out....ridiculous to try to do that with chalk.
Time yourself and see how much time you spend writing on the board or explaining activities. It's a huge time sink. If I didn't write down what the activity was it would be hard to explain to them orally. If I told them orally to do an activity about buying a car they'd probably do a skit about playing basketball.
For oral English the point is to get them talking. They can improve their listening fine on their own. If you spend 5 minutes explaining an activity in a 40 minute class that's a waste. |
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Non Sequitur
Joined: 23 May 2010 Posts: 4724 Location: China
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 9:04 am Post subject: |
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For oral English the point is to get them talking. They can improve their listening fine on their own. If you spend 5 minutes explaining an activity in a 40 minute class that's a waste.[i]
At last, a comment I can go with.
Oral English is spoken English. The Chinese teachers do the grammar stuff and have done all through Middle and High School.
Of course freshers' oral skills are out of kilter with written. This is because there is no oral component in the Gao Kao and often students spend two years getting through the GK. This is not because they are backward but because a better grade will get them into a more prestigious school. |
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Deats
Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 503
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 10:50 am Post subject: |
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Where I used to teach we had computer classrooms and all the mod cons. The problem was that all the computers were knackered with viruses. Half of the time I couldn't use what I'd taken to class as it took about 30 mins for the technician to fix the computers - his method was very advanced... switch off, switch on. Even the projector often didn't work. So I had to prepare 2 lessons - 1 using tech and something to fall back on. This was BS.
Therefore, in general, I taught old school. I would just use print outs (I had a computer and printer in my house, so could do as much printing as I wanted), textbooks, blackboard and chalk. The chalk dust used to really irritate my throat if I had several lessons in a day. |
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ghost
Joined: 30 Jan 2003 Posts: 1693 Location: Saudi Arabia
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 11:47 am Post subject: speaking is little |
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Quote: |
For oral English the point is to get them talking. They can improve their listening fine on their own. If you spend 5 minutes explaining an activity in a 40 minute class that's a waste.[i]
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In a typical 90 minute class, I have worked out that most students (sadly) only talk for a couple of minutes, and some hardly even reach that un-lofty figure. Some of them speak more in group activities (when they are given a subject to discuss) but some people almost never talk, and in one of my Business English classes - a couple of students have never spoken - one could think I am at fault here, but I am a newbie here, and I don't want to force people to talk, when it is clearly such a painful and face losing activity for some, especially in front of the others.
In Saudi, the dynamic was completely the opposite, and you could not get them to stop talking once you started an activity, such was their enthusiasm and lack of inhibition. But here, I think that some of the students should be treated with sensitivity lest you discourage them from ever speaking English. I have Freshmen students so it is a learning curve for them. One assumes things will get better as they 'progress' throughout their university years.
Big difference, in general, between males and females, with most girls showing more willingness to talk and participate in activities. Some of my male students are basically wall flowers in the class, and prefer to take a backseat. If you talk to them (the boys) individually, though, they show a decent level, not apparent, sometimes, in class.
Ghost in China |
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litterascriptor
Joined: 17 Jan 2013 Posts: 360
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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I use PPTs and such sparingly if they are available. They have a place, but having observed a class or two where they were used too much, I'd rather be stingy about how often I switch on the projector. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014 Posts: 967 Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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ghost wrote: |
Some of them speak more in group activities (when they are given a subject to discuss) but some people almost never talk, and in one of my Business English classes - a couple of students have never spoken - one could think I am at fault here, but I am a newbie here, and I don't want to force people to talk, when it is clearly such a painful and face losing activity for some, especially in front of the others. |
Fault? No.
Before going abroad, I worked with primary/secondary and carried over an ethos of "reach everyone" to preparatory/college students. As a principle, I haven't abandoned that, but have had the ideal challenged by a rational argument of: They're no longer children. Everyone will not pass a college course for many reasons. They apply themselves or don't, but the onus is on them. I'm at a 3rd tier university with three English FTs and they stretch us thin-- subject, oral, and business English courses for both 4 and 3-year degrees. I have two cohorts of business majors (a freshman class and a class finishing up) and have had moderate success prompting everyone to speak by having groups of 4 to 8 stand together and address the bulk of the class.
Typically, I do this with sets of questions that relate to whatever topic(s) I've presented with compelling input. Among that set, individuals choose one and can choose the same ones. Because the set of questions is a range-- from recall to relating discrete inputs (Bloom) and invite opinion, personal experience, and/or reasoning. Confident speakers exercise familiar phrases and rhetoric, while the more timid target an accomplishable goal. Some students work from notes, while others work extemporaneously.
Standing together is crucial. Choice is crucial; Even if questions are repeatedly chosen. Meaningful questions beyond (and based on) recall invite dissension.
I coach presentation by moving away and into that bulk of students because, despite my admonitions to address the class, the speaker's focus most often follows me. I have also had to a do a fair amount of gentle shushing as I haven't witnessed respecting a speaker as widely adopted. And there are reasons for that...
When I first arrived, I learned the scholastic tradition in earlier education was for individual students to stand alone and recite. The performance is for the speaker, not so much the receiver. So, it's no wonder students are "done" with that. For business majors, I stress that speaking in front of others is a requirement of management, and yet it's the first, or second, most cited fear, depending on your sources. You want to make more money? Fight the demons now. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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The only time I use the computer in the classroom is to display instructions for their assignment or homework. I assign homework in every class so that we can start the next class with the students reading what they have written.
My goal is that every student speaks in every class.
The number of students in my classes ranges from 18 to 38.
The methods I use of having every student speak typically include: speeches, dialogues, role plays, and having them read the questions and answers from assigned homework.
The students do most of the work in these types of classes. I am not there to talk to them. I am there to guide their speaking assignments.
Most of the topics in my classes revolve around the students talking about themselves. That appeals to the narcissist in most of them, and I rarely have a class where I do not achieve my goal of every student speaking for a total of at least a few minutes each. |
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rogerwilco
Joined: 10 Jun 2010 Posts: 1549
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Posted: Thu May 14, 2015 2:16 pm Post subject: Re: speaking is little |
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buravirgil wrote: |
I have also had to a do a fair amount of gentle shushing as I haven't witnessed respecting a speaker as widely adopted. And there are reasons for that...
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I explain to my students that if they are not quiet while their classmate is speaking, then I will ask the student assigned to speak to repeat what they said again and again.
It does seem like I am punishing the student that I asked to speak. But, it does not take long for the students to realize that they need to be quiet in class, or that they will soon be the one asked to repeat and repeat. |
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