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intelligent-hustler
Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Rio De Janeiro
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 Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 4:25 pm Post subject: Unique Circumstance: Racism and Ageism Opinion Requested |
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Sorry for the long post. I wanted feedback specific to my situation. TL;DR Can I live in Hanoi/HCMC on my savings and a full time teacher’s salary?
Thank you in advance for any insight and assistance you can provide.
Assistance Requested: Personal opinion on my specific situation from people with in-country experience
Should I be more realistic about my chances of getting a mid-high level teaching job, given my age, professional experience, and Ethnicity (details below)? Mid-high level as defined by pay range >$1500 per month + paid holidays, without wholly unreasonable requests for unpaid activity and/or commutes.
How much do I realistically need to make to be upper middle class in Vietnam?
I am no stranger to budget living. I have lived in the US on less than $25,000 per year. When I travel, I am more hostels and street food, than hotels and bistros. However, my plan is to increase my standard of living slightly by semi-retiring in SEA. Nothing exorbitant, but I am trying to gauge what is realistic.
Unlike prior posters asking about salary, I have saved up enough to never HAVE to work again. As long as I keep my expenses under $18,000 per year, I can live off my savings. From what I am reading, I can live okay in Hanoi/HCMC on $1500 per month ($18000/12 months). Taken in combination with the teaching salary question posted above, what kind of lifestyle can I realistically afford on $1500 per month + a full time teaching income?
Professional Overview:
Currently living in Rio De Janeiro as the Commercial Director of a US Publically Traded Helicopter company. I have held Vice President and Director level positions in Finance, Sales, Mergers & Acquisitions, and Business Development for multiple Fortune 50 companies.
I am a graduate from a US Top 10 Undergraduate Business School, with 4 degrees (Accounting, Computer Information Systems, International Business, and Operations Management) and 1 minor (Speech Communication). I plan to complete my CELTA either prior to arrival in Vietnam or shortly thereafter.
When viewed from a potential employer's perspective, will my professional accomplishments help outweigh my lack of prior teaching experience?
This is Professional landing page: http://www.marcosison.com (website is still WIP)
Personal Overview: I am a 41 year old, native speaker (US) with Philippine dual citizenship. I have significant travel/backpacking experience and have lived overseas in developing counties (Czech Republic and Brazil) for multiple years. My intent is long term semi-retirement in SEA, with teaching as a supplemental activity. However, I have been reading on these boards that Vietnam ESL programs have a STRONG preference to “White” and young teachers.
While I am not “White”, my mannerism and physical appearance is atypical Asian. As a former fitness model, my physical appearance has always been an advantage for me, not a drawback. In the same vein, my physical appearance, outlook, and attitude has never led anyone to believe I am over 40.
Can the discrimination I face be overcome?
What should I realistically expect to make with my background and circumstances?
My Personal Website:http://intelligenthustler.com (website is still WIP)
Last edited by intelligent-hustler on Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:10 am; edited 2 times in total |
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RustyShackleford
Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 449
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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"Even" as an ethnic Filipino, you should be okay. There are some unkind thoughts about them in Vietnam but employers know a quality candidate when they see one if you dig around. Try to aim for a small college or international school as they're a little more progressive there, although the chain schools should treat you okay.
Your professional stats will look good any way you put it as it shows a responsible individual who can commit to projects. Already by that you're beating your competition over with a stick. |
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intelligent-hustler
Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Rio De Janeiro
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:20 pm Post subject: Thanks for the info |
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| RustyShackleford wrote: |
"Even" as an ethnic Filipino, you should be okay. There are some unkind thoughts about them in Vietnam but employers know a quality candidate when they see one if you dig around. Try to aim for a small college or international school as they're a little more progressive there, although the chain schools should treat you okay.
Your professional stats will look good any way you put it as it shows a responsible individual who can commit to projects. Already by that you're beating your competition over with a stick. |
Thanks Rusty! Any feedback on a standard of living possible with $1500+ what a full time teacher can make? |
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Seymour Glass
Joined: 18 Jul 2010
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| If your goal is a good lifestyle and you don't really need a job to save money, why not look into teaching online and living in the Philippines... |
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intelligent-hustler
Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Rio De Janeiro
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Seymour Glass wrote: |
| If your goal is a good lifestyle and you don't really need a job to save money, why not look into teaching online and living in the Philippines... |
1 Point of clarification. Money is likely still an issue. My understanding of the cost of living in Hanoi/HCMC is that $1500 allows me to get by, but not really enjoy myself. My plan then is to supplement my savings with a teacher's salary to give me travel money, drinking money, a nicer apartment, and a medical emergency fund. This goes back to the question I pose, is this plan realistic? I am hoping someone here might shed some light on that for me.
Good question on the Philippines. The real answer is two-fold.
1) I don't enjoy the Philippines as much as Vietnam or Thailand. It would be like vacationing in your hometown. Not as exciting as vacationing someplace foreign and exotic.
2) Philippines is not cheap. I could not see me living comfortably in Manila on $1500 per month and teaching English is not an option in the Philippines. |
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EFL Educator
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 988
Location: Cape Town
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:16 am Post subject: |
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| My advice is just retire since you can live off your ample savings. |
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intelligent-hustler
Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Rio De Janeiro
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 2:39 am Post subject: |
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| EFL Educator wrote: |
| My advice is just retire since you can live off your ample savings. |
If you don't mind, can you give me an idea of what a $1500 a month lifestyle in Vietnam might look like?
From reading the forums, people talk about needing $2200-$2500 to live in Hanoi or Saigon in a "nicer" part of town, while eating out and having drinks on occasion.
They don't make it sound like they are living in huge expat homes and eating western food all the time. I'm not looking for that either, but I would like an active social life. |
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1st Sgt Welsh
Joined: 13 Dec 2010
Posts: 946
Location: Bandar Seri Begawan, Brunei
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| intelligent-hustler wrote: |
| EFL Educator wrote: |
| My advice is just retire since you can live off your ample savings. |
If you don't mind, can you give me an idea of what a $1500 a month lifestyle in Vietnam might look like?
From reading the forums, people talk about needing $2200-$2500 to live in Hanoi or Saigon in a "nicer" part of town, while eating out and having drinks on occasion.
They don't make it sound like they are living in huge expat homes and eating western food all the time. I'm not looking for that either, but I would like an active social life. |
Hi intelligent-hustler,
I'd recommend having a read of these two lengthy discussions, if you have not already done so:
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=107595
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=98989&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
Good luck! |
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Brunouno
Joined: 18 Apr 2013
Posts: 129
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| intelligent-hustler wrote: |
| EFL Educator wrote: |
| My advice is just retire since you can live off your ample savings. |
If you don't mind, can you give me an idea of what a $1500 a month lifestyle in Vietnam might look like?
From reading the forums, people talk about needing $2200-$2500 to live in Hanoi or Saigon in a "nicer" part of town, while eating out and having drinks on occasion.
They don't make it sound like they are living in huge expat homes and eating western food all the time. I'm not looking for that either, but I would like an active social life. |
I don't think I could spend $2,500 a month here even if I tried. We all have different lifestyles, and what is needed is very dependent on the individual. You have given some idea, though, of the lifestyle you have/wish to have here.
I moved into a 2 bedroom apartment in district 2, which is considered a good area of HCM, a couple of weeks ago. It's a new building with a gym and swimming pool, and I pay $310 USD a month. For me, personally, I consider this a very comfortable place to live, and it is definitely 'upper-middle class' to Vietnamese standards.
I often eat street food. A lot of foreigners don't, but I have found it to be just as good, if not better, as the pretentious restaurants if you know the right places. I don't count how much I spend a month on food, but if I had to guess, I'd say around $300 when including the odd Mac attack, pizza and other western indulgences. I would also say I spend about $200-$300 on dating, entertainment and other miscellaneous costs. So, I spend around a grand a month here.
This is a generous number for my cost of living here; I know I've had months where I've spent much less, but I'm currently doing a master's degree here, so I'm at home a lot.
I really can't imagine how someone would need $2,500 a month here unless they didn't have a motorbike, had a family or refused to adapt/immerse themselves in some aspects of the ways of living here. I hope this helps. |
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VietCanada
Joined: 30 Nov 2010
Posts: 590
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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I would agree that $1000 a month is enough to get by here. Especially if you cook for yourself most days.
If you want to live like a rock star then $2500 will do that but since most places pay $500 to $1500 a month, you would need to work 2 or 3 jobs just to reach that pay.
You need teaching experience in Vietnam before even considering that you would or could even think about making more. |
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creeper1
Joined: 24 Aug 2010
Posts: 481
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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The question is, with a resume like that, couldnt you do something more lucrative than tefl?
Maybe a multinational in vietnam could use your services?
Also 40 seems very young to semi retire. |
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EFL Educator
Joined: 17 Jul 2013
Posts: 988
Location: Cape Town
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 12:17 am Post subject: |
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YES 40 is very young to semi-retire....especially in the TEFL field if you have no other sources of income available aka savings. It seems to me that EFL can no longer be a career choice.....problem is and has always been the case is that there are literally thousands of NEW TEFL baby boomers aka newbies in their 20's flooding the EFL market which is already saturated in Vietnam....armed with degrees for work....and with all kinds of TEFL certificates available too. Guess this is the New TEFL World Order for Vietnam!  |
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intelligent-hustler
Joined: 08 Apr 2015
Posts: 11
Location: Rio De Janeiro
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| Posted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| creeper1 wrote: |
The question is, with a resume like that, couldnt you do something more lucrative than tefl?
Maybe a multinational in vietnam could use your services?
Also 40 seems very young to semi retire. |
The multinational route would be my most obvious choice, but two reasons keeping me from following that path.
1) The challenge would have to be spectacular. I'm leaving a job, because it doesn't fold my fire anymore. I'm no longer willing to put in 70 hours a week to make other rich people richer.
2) Partly altruistic. I've been blessed with a high quality of life, given my birth in a "developing" country. Main reason I have been this lucky is education. I think giving back some of that karma by teaching kids is time well spent. |
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esl_prof
Joined: 30 Nov 2013
Posts: 2006
Location: peyi kote solèy frèt
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:36 am Post subject: |
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| intelligent-hustler wrote: |
The multinational route would be my most obvious choice, but two reasons keeping me from following that path.
1) The challenge would have to be spectacular. I'm leaving a job, because it doesn't fold my fire anymore. I'm no longer willing to put in 70 hours a week to make other rich people richer.
2) Partly altruistic. I've been blessed with a high quality of life, given my birth in a "developing" country. Main reason I have been this lucky is education. I think giving back some of that karma by teaching kids is time well spent. |
Given that (1) many (though hardly all) language schools are more about making money for their owners than educating kids and (2) a significant part of your motivation is altruistic, why don't you consider working a few more years, doubling your savings, and just volunteering your time with an NGO that does educational work, microbusiness training, etc.? Just a thought. |
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skarper
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 477
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| Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:32 am Post subject: |
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I second the sentiment that working in EFL in Vietnam will suck your soul dry. The sleazy sobs who run the schools care nothing for education and everything for the bottom line. Unlikely OP could achieve his goals working for them.
If you're so well heeled then teach privately for modest fees/free to those who deserve it and will make the most of it. I don't think there is a 100% legal route to do this but then again how many language mill teachers are 100% legal? |
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