Job Discussion Forums :: View topic - How bad is Web International?

Get TEFL Certified & Start Your Adventure Today!

Teach English Abroad and Get Paid to see the World!

Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Students and Teachers from Around the World!"

FAQ

Memberlist

Usergroups

Profile

How bad is Web International?
Goto page 1, 2 Next

Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)

View previous topic :: View next topic

Author

Message

CNexpatesl

Joined: 27 May 2015
Posts: 194

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:08 am Post subject: How bad is Web International?

Anyone have any horror stories from them? Search doesn't seem to bring up much discussion on them, yet they're so ubiquitous throughout China. And almost everyone has probably worked for them at least once in their China ESL careers. From what I've heard, it's just the standard: bad hours, low pay, managers treating you like a piece of meat forcing you to do demos and such. Does it get any worse than that?

3701 W.119th

Joined: 26 Feb 2014
Posts: 386
Location: Central China

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 8:16 am Post subject:

Quote:

How bad is Web International?

How long's a piece of string?

Blingcosa

Joined: 17 May 2008
Posts: 146
Location: Guangdong

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 10:32 am Post subject:

i just did a demo class with them, thought how much more capable they are compared to my current school. Web schools are franchised, so some are worse than others.

Aristede

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: How bad is Web International?

CNexpatesl wrote:

Anyone have any horror stories from them?

Search doesn't seem to bring up much discussion on them, yet they're so ubiquitous throughout China. And almost everyone has probably worked for them at least once in their China ESL careers. Laughing

From what I've heard, it's just the standard: bad hours, low pay, managers treating you like a piece of meat forcing you to do demos and such. Does it get any worse than that?

You see a lot of stock answers here about the chain schools, even from people who have no experience with them.

I worked for several Webs. The first was in a Tier 3 city and the others in Tier 1 cities. As franchise outlets, they were similar and yet very different. That is to say, you have prefab lesson plans that are mostly uniform at all Webs, and they all have the structure of private classes, "salon" classes, and Engliish Corners that teachers all have to deal with. They all have fishbowl style classrooms, etc.

"Bad hours" are subjective. There are no split shifts, but you're working several weekdays from typically 1-9 and virtually all weekends from a little earlier. It's 25 teaching hours and 15 office hours per week. Only one English Corner per week if you're lucky, but often more. IMO the pay wouldn't be bad if you didn't have to hang there for the 15 office hours which become completely pointless and maddening once you're accustomed to the lessons. When one school was short-staffed, I was briefly teaching five classes with no break in between. I found I actually preferred this whirlwind to sitting in the office for hours with my fellow foreign teachers...and their conversation. Then there are the English Corners. Some people hate doing these with a passion. I felt that way at first, but when you get used to them, no huge deal. The demos you mentioned may be required. These are a pain, yes. Usually you don't have to do many though.

As for management, this is where the differences between Webs comes in. You may find yourself with management that lets you do your job (as long as no students are complaining) and does everything they promise in the contract. OR--you may find yourself at a Web with corrupt management that tries to screw you left and right on everything. I have experienced both. One of them indeed was a horror story, but the bottom line is that they vary hugely in terms of management, and you can't gauge any one of them from experience with another.

This also applies to the students you're teaching. Depending on the Web (and the city of course), they could be mostly mature adults who want to be there or teenagers who don't. You'll be dealing with 4-10 of them at a time except at English Corners. Pay ranges from the 8500 RMB range working "out there" to cities to 17,500 or so in a city like Shanghai. In hourly terms, it is low, yes, but you should also be able to save some money, especially since vacation days are few and thus there's less temptation to spend and you might be too tired anyway.

Long story short, Web is like many chain schools. Some people don't mind this grind and some hate it. I didn't find it as bad as many make it out to be.

tony87

Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 43

Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:26 pm Post subject:

I don't know why anyone would work 40 hour weeks with no/little vacation time really. Couldn't you do the same back home for more money? Back home it'd probably be 9-5, not the crappy 1-9 schedule too. One of the big upsides to ESL teaching is the opportunity to travel during semester breaks...you miss out on all that at a language mill.

Aristede

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:02 am Post subject:

tony87 wrote:

I don't know why anyone would work 40 hour weeks with no/little vacation time really. Couldn't you do the same back home for more money? Back home it'd probably be 9-5, not the crappy 1-9 schedule too.

One of the big upsides to ESL teaching is the opportunity to travel during semester breaks...you miss out on all that at a language mill.

If one does work 40 hours, not everyone prefers 9-5, believe it or not. Personally I hate dealing with rush hour and meal hours when everyplace is packed with people. And if you need to do banking or similar on a standard 9-5 shift, same problem.

But you're right that it's a grind (so to speak) working full-time at a language mill, and the unrelenting hours are what makes it so. Part-time in one of those centers would be a breeze.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:06 am Post subject:

tony87 wrote:

I regularly work 45 teaching hours+ / week. Been doing it for years and still enjoy it. Difference is, I'm working for myself, the income is very good, I have little to no travel time or prep time and huge scheduling flexibility. So I don't you can base happiness / satisfaction on just the hours worked, you have to consider the entire situation.

tony87

Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 43

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:29 pm Post subject:

Jmbf wrote:

tony87 wrote:

IIRC most/all of your hours are private tutoring, which pays a lot higher than working full time at a mill? Plus no boss to answer to, freedom to plan your own lessons etc.

I'm specifically asking why someone would work 40 hours a week, little vacation, in a language mill for like 8-12k + housing. You could do the same back home for more money, plus probable workplace benefits like pension, promotion opportunities etc.

One of the huge upsides to teaching abroad is the opportunity to travel and see many different countries, and experience new things. It just isn't possible when you only get 1 or 2 weeks off a year and work antisocial hours.

I'd rather earn a few thousand RMB a month less, and have a life with less stress. If it was at all maximising income I'd have stayed back home.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject:

tony87 wrote:

I'm specifically asking why someone would work 40 hours a week, little vacation, in a language mill for like 8-12k + housing. You could do the same back home for more money, plus probable workplace benefits like pension, promotion opportunities etc..

In certain circumstances Asia still offers the chance to earn more than one could back home. I certainly earn much more here than I would back home. Quite a few teachers that I know here earn more than their equivalents back home. Backpacking TEFLers with minimal qualifications can easily earn more than the minimum wage jobs they might have had back home. And so on.

I'm not arguing that there is some validity to your point, but it's not correct to assume we could all be earning more money back in our home countries.

Babala

Joined: 28 Jan 2005
Posts: 1303
Location: Henan

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 3:25 pm Post subject:

One problem is that Web offers no medical insurance.

Aristede

Joined: 06 Aug 2009
Posts: 180

Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject:

Babala wrote:

One problem is that Web offers no medical insurance.

I believe that at least one Web I worked at offered the option of medical insurance, but (surprise) they weren't fully covering the cost. I opted out, thinking at the time that medical insurance in China wasn't reliable enough to be worth it.

tony87

Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 43

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:37 am Post subject:

Jmbf wrote:

tony87 wrote:

What's minimum wage back in your country?

Over in mine it's 11,000RMB a month, and you'll pay hardly any tax on that. That's about the same as you'll get in a training centre and you'll get more vacation, pension contributions, and the possibility of career advancement and promotions back home too. That's a minimum wage job...i.e. the absolute lowest job out there.

I understand why someone would do private tutoring for 40 hours a week since that would pay some very decent money...but 40 hours a week in a language mill...if anyone wants a grind like that they can do it back home in any job and pocket more cash.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:48 am Post subject:

tony87 wrote:

Jmbf wrote:

tony87 wrote:

Yes minimum wage in my country is about the same - around 11K RMB / month. I'd imagine that those jobs would be fairly dismal though. Long hours with tedious and monotonous work. I can why some would see that working in a language mill would be a step up from that (or at least a chance to try something new and different for a while).

Also, in HK at least, many TEFLers are earning more than HKD 20K / month. That's not including tutoring on the side, which is illegal for many but widespread nevertheless. Teaching a few students on the side can easily push their income up to 25K / month or even more. So I can certainly see the attraction from that perspective.

I assume there is also at least some private tutoring going on in China as well, which would help to supplement peoples incomes, in some cases quite significantly.

tony87

Joined: 21 Jul 2015
Posts: 43

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:56 pm Post subject:

Jmbf wrote:

tony87 wrote:

Jmbf wrote:

tony87 wrote:

But anyone who feels inclined could do private tutoring while having a lower hours full time job.

40 hours a week...180 a month...for let's say 11k + 3k housing value is 77rmb an hour...and for that you get little holidays, work obnoxious hours at antisocial times.

Jmbf

Joined: 29 Jun 2014
Posts: 663

Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 2:07 pm Post subject:

tony87 wrote:

Yes but everyone needs to start somewhere, to gain experience, learn how the system works, improve their skill set etc etc. Language mills can be horrible places but at least you quickly learn what it takes to survive in a classroom - sink or swim as they say. Plus you can make useful contacts with students, network etc etc.

I think I can agree with you if we add a conditional to your first statement, how could anyone continue in a language mill after their first contract period or so. Once you have your first contract under your belt, then surely you would seek out better options.

Display posts from previous:

	Job Discussion Forums Forum Index -> China (Job-related Posts Only)	All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2

Jump to:

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

Teaching Jobs in China