Job Discussion Forums

ohdeerbambi · Joined: 09 May 2015 Posts: 3 Location: Cape Town

Hi everyone! Long time reader, first time poster here. I'm very keen to make the move to Russia, and would love to hear people's input and recent experiences regarding a good first job in Russia. I'm leaning more towards working in Moscow, but I'm open to anything at this stage Smile

I'm finishing up my MA in English at the moment, and will be Celta qualified by Jan, when I hope to leave. I have experience teaching English to different age groups, but only to first-language speakers.

So I wanted to ask:

1. What would you consider is a good first job in Russia? Looking for something with a good support system, social opportunities, and preferably accommodation provided. I'm perfectly willing to go with a chain school, but have heard that different branches of Language Link, for example, have very different conditions, so any experiences about that would be great.

2. Also, what do you wish you would have known about Russia/tefl in Russia before you started your first job?

Thanks guys Very Happy

Gamajorba · Joined: 03 May 2015 Posts: 357

Get a job which provides accommodation and visa as a starting point for starters! And see how much traveling you will be required to do.

One thing I've learnt is that making a good first impression on Russian students is vital for future success. They can be very hard to please!

maruss · Joined: 18 Mar 2003 Posts: 1145 Location: Cyprus

I thought I had a good first job-plenty of hours and mostly adults, classes mostly in the office,along with $ 25 per academic hour which was very good back in 2005.......
Also a very nice flat from a friends boss for the first three months at one third of the market rental price!To cap it all I met a nice lady too via some mutual friends and despite all the hassles of living in Moscow,I thought life was going quite well for me which is always unwise when you first come to Russia, where nothing is for ever and everything is possible!
Just like for so many others it all went haywire,but that's another story!
Nowadays things are tighter,earnings are effectively lower and the cost of living is higher for most essentials.(and the regime is nastier!!)
Russia is about the experience,not about making money and this has to be the main motivation for going there,otherwise forget it!

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:02 pm Post subject:

Now, now, Maruss, come on. Doom and gloom already?

Plenty of money to be made in Russia AND enjoy a great experience too. But the experience entails risks. These can be minimised to a degree, by following the already posted advice re a flat and visa support.

So, as ever, try BKC-IH. Or any of the other McSchools.

Best of luck to the OP!

Deats · Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 503

Money can be made IF and only IF you are willing to stay a while and willing to do privates (this can take up your evenings and weekends, which doesn't sounds like your cup of tea OP - you want a social life). It takes time to find private students, so you'd have to stay for several years. I also think there is a little less money flying around at the moment.

If you want an active social life in Moscow and you don't find privates, then don't expect to save much, if anything at all.

It always surprises me what shitty money EFLers get offered in Russia. Especially when you compare what you can get in Asia and the relative cost of living. It makes no sense.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:12 pm Post subject:

Western Europe is worse, I think...

Deats · Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 503

But for most people, Western Europe is a more desirable place to live. And with freedom of movement in the EU demand outweighs supply. That is not the case in Russia

ohdeerbambi · Joined: 09 May 2015 Posts: 3 Location: Cape Town

Thanks everyone! I'm happy to do privates; I meant that I'd like a community to access to create a support structure (hopefully locals and not just other expats), else it'd be pretty lonely Smile

Sashadroogie · Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:45 pm Post subject:

Deats · Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 503

From my experience in Russia, I would have to disagree about Russian teachers being capable. The ones I have encountered (my wife being the exception) have failed to impress me.

Yes, SOME of them know grammar. But often their pronunciation is lacking as is their fluency and vocabulary. When it comes to certain aspects of learning a language, there is no replacement for a native speaker.

Most Russians struggle to pass IELTS to any decent level. This shows their true level when compared to an educated native speaker. My wife (Russian) just passed CPE - the hardest test for non natives - with 99%, which is kind of unheard of. Her English is exemplary. But there will still be occasions where she won't know a word, slang expression or an idiom because she didn't grow up in an English speaking country. So how people with very average IELTS results can really succeed in certain scenarios is beyond me.

If I owned a school I would employ Russians to teach grammar and qualified natives to do speaking, listening and writing.

Of course this is not guaranteed to succeed as some natives have horrible accents, or a poor level of vocab etc and some Russians have no idea how to properly teach grammar. I teach the kid of a teacher from SPBGU and the woman can barely string a sentence together, yet she works at the second best uni in Russia.

GotoRussia · Joined: 02 Jan 2014 Posts: 182

native English speakers are in demand simply because you can't replicate that. Many Russian friends told me their English teachers (local Russians) in state schools or universities were substandard or worse. They couldn't learn a damn thing.

And the Russians I met which had good English were diligent students who immersed themselves. And usually went abroad to England or America to study.

They were typically under mid 30's, the young generation. Those older has no incentive. One taxi driver I talked to said he learned English 25 years ago but never spoke it, because of the political tensions of the time.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:20 am Post subject:

All teachers come in a range of quality. But I fear you are both being too harsh on local teachers, and perhaps simply have not encountered the highly-trained and capable ones I have. IELTS 9, CPE A, (are percentage results given?), working as Celta tutors and Cambridge examiners etc. For most of them, you'd be hard put to know that they weren't native speakers of English.

Contrast that to the average backpacker who isn't even worth his beer money...

Russian students tend to blame their school and uni teachers - many of whom do seem to have been dire. But this is also used as a fig-leaf to cover their shame for not having learnt better. Don't be taken in by their excuse making.

And Russians typically get between IELTS 6 - 7 with little struggle at all. Teachers will get much higher 8 - 9. At least that's what my experience has been, and that of my fellow colleagues working in examining.

Dismayed I am at this notion of Russians teaching grammar only, and natives teaching skills, apart from reading it seems : ) Almost as questionable as saying only locals can teach beginners...

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:22 am Post subject:

As for pronunciation, listen to French or Spanish teachers of English. Tell me, whose pron is lacking then.

Deats · Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 503

In CPE you get 5 marks, with each being out of 230. These points are added, then divided by 5 for the overall score. My missus got 227/230 - therefore 99%.

I would like to meet these Russian teachers you speak of. Where are they teaching? Certainly not at university level. I know several teachers at SPBGU - well, one personally and others I spoke to when I applied for a job there (before I knew the pay!). Their English is very poor - written (emails) and spoken. The pay is so abysmal that why would anyone want to work in a uni? 15k a month ffs. The headmaster of our school has a PHD in philology from SPBGU and his spoken English is average - he hates speaking as he never practises. The new English teacher at our school can't pronounce words like triangle - she says treeangle or 'th'. The 12 year old boys take the piss out of her and the 15 y/o don't believe a word she says as their English is superior. I know some English teachers in public schools too - holy crap, I taught 10 year old kids with better English. I also know one of the top dogs in EF Russia - I taught her son - and her English was good as she lived in America for some time, but nothing that would make me think she was a native speaker.

Maybe there are a handful of Russians who have lived abroad who have good English, but not so many, in my experience.

Of course some Russian teachers may be better than some of the dross that passes as native EFL teachers. But these EFLers are not trained to teach and generally have no idea what they are doing. So what can you expect? A trained native compared to a trained Russian - no comparison.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:57 am Post subject:

If you are only looking at deadwood teachers from the uni sector, then that might account for your opinion on this. But even some average language schools will boast Russian teachers with Deltas, as well as their own training. Many of them have been speaking English from early childhood and got to be as good as they are from sheer hard work - not living abroad.

If you have not met any so far, you will. You might have to modify your 'no comparison' idea too. Just doesn't stand up, in my experience at least.

Cheers for the info about CPE. I've never actually seen a cert!