Job Discussion Forums

[nomad soul]

Several posters on the Saudi forum have maintained that non-Muslim and/or western expats should be paid more solely due to personal lifestyle sacrifices they have to make in order to live/work in conservative Saudi Arabia. In other words, employers should boost the salaries of highly-qualified expats simply because they're giving up so-called freedoms or things (e.g., alcohol, pork, male-female dating/socializing, women wearing whatever they want, women driving, movie theatres, free expression, and so on). Besides, Saudi Arabia is a wealthy country, so some contend that employers definitely can afford to pay expats more for living in such a difficult culture.

What about other countries? For instance, heavily-populated India and China also top the list with the world's most polluted cities. Do employers in these countries offer expat job seekers more money because they'll have to breathe nasty, harmful air? Should they? Ditto for Japan, which has a high number of earthquakes as well as other Asian countries that have experienced more than their share of horrific natural disasters. And it gets pretty darn frosty in parts of Russia, Mongolia, and Central Asia, which can make life challenging for some expats who like things toasty. Is there such a thing as climate compensation?

So what's your take on getting higher pay due to certain perceived or actual hardships (exclusive of war)? Is this a fair expectation? That is, is this about personal choices/free will or about a sense of entitlement?

[suphanburi]

[suphanburi]

remove double post

[Knedliki]

I've found the hardest part of this job has often been the other foreigners, so how about a colleague allowance?

You get extra dollars depending how dysfunctional your co-workers are.

[Deats]

EFL teachers in the Gulf get paid more - that is the equivalent to hardship allowance. I doubt many people would go there if they were paid $1000 a month.

Places that are very desirable to live in often pay the lowest salaries relative to cost of living. Supply and demand dictates the salary. So, once again working somewhere that is not so desirable often pays more (especially compared with CoL and local salaries)

Jobs in Spain, France, Germany, UK etc usually pay less than jobs in China. So surely this is the equivalent of hardship allowance?

Many EFL teachers go abroad to save money (+ adventure, language, food or what not) so they are getting a better deal than they would at home. They are being paid more than they are usually worth, so I would class this as the equivalent of H.A.

[Sashadroogie]

Come to Russia! There is no hardship for EFLers! It is officially prohibited. And any minor discomfort brought on by the climate can easily be offset by the quality of spirit, spirits, and bedwarmers.

[spiral78]

[Deats]

I understand it is market driven. The market drives wages, therefore people are paid more to live in less desirable places because nobody wants to work there. So it's a kind of hardship payment - obviously it is not official, it's just kinda common sense.

[Brunouno]

[nomad soul]

[Deats]

In the Middle East, of course there are some exceptions to the rule, like Dubai. Although Dubai is hardly paradise. Dubai is a desirable place to live compared with other Gulf areas - and as a consequence you won't save what you save in other gulf areas. How much does it cost to live in Dubai? It's way more expensive than neighbouring countries, ESPECIALLY if you are going to nightclubs every weekend and living an extravagant lifestyle.

My guess is that I can save more in China with a mere BA and TEFL than the majority of people are saving in Dubai or anywhere else in the Middle East - and let's not forget they have paid for an expensive masters, phd etc etc AND during that period lost their income. Double whammy. On a per hour scale, from what I have read it doesn't seem like most jobs in the Middle East pay any more than China (if you land a good uni job and do privates), especially when you factor in CoL in some of the Middle East, like Dubai.

I think it just really irks people with an MA or PHD to hear that people with a BA make as much, if not more than them. Especially when they live in a nicer place with more freedom.

The ONLY reason I wanted to live in the Middle East was money. Once I found out that the 'promised land' is no longer what it was, it was a no brainer to look elsewhere. Sure some guys earn 100k if they hit the jackpot job, but these are the few, not the many. It's the exception, not the rule.

I will let the people in the ME enjoy their sandstorms, +50 degree heat, oppressive living conditions etc... of course these things you don't count as negative factors of living in the ME...

I'm not sure if you have seen in the news lately, but parts of the ME are close to a war zone...

[MotherF]

I work in a university system with a dozen locations. I moved from one of the most desirable to the least desirable due to my husband's job (he is not an English teacher). I tried to explain the concept of hardship pay to my new boss and he feigned ignorance.

[Mr. Leafy]

[nomad soul]

[Deats]

China is a big country. The Pm2.5 levels where I worked previously and where I will work in Sept are as good as they get in China, and compare favourably with many places around the world.

It's probably safer to live where I will work than the American utopia... a land of fracking, hurricanes, and LA pollution... oh right, America is a big country too, so maybe I shouldn't be so general

As for the ME, do you really think living in +50 degree heat with sandstorms is a desirable environment to bring a child up in?