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indirect.object
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 64
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:20 am Post subject: university job offer - negotiable? |
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Greetings -
For a US citizen with five years of full-time teaching experience in Jeddah at postsecondary government institutions run by the Ministry of Education and the Ministry of Higher Education respectively, and an M.A. in English / TESL from a US university (located in the US) awarded prior to four of those work years and an M.A. in another subdiscipline of English awarded prior to the first of those five work years, what would be the expected government salary for a language instructor in a university foundation program - does anybody know?
Say it's around 14,000 per year. Is it, as I expect it is, impossible to negotiate that, or is this totally down to the negotiating skills of the person offered the job?
If you have time and interest in offering your view or helpful guidance, please do. |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:39 am Post subject: |
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I would say you are leaning towards the high side. Your quals are good but with 5 years of experience I think 13,000 plus housing is more likely.
You may do better and strike it lucky. When I first went to Saudi I had two employers offer me a contract and there was almost 2000 riyals difference per month between the offers and yet they were looking at the same CV. |
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balqis
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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Would you like to work with someone who is your equal in terms of experience and qualification, but has ''better negotiating skill'' [ i.e. is a crafty devil's advocate ] and earns more than you?
Would you like to find out that though your equal, s/he managed to get more than you? And for no reason at all?? Or because s/he is handsome and has a charming gab?
And all of it would happen at a government university, where rules are claimed to be transparent and fair, and also clear-cut and rigid, to curb corruption, so prevalent everywhere else.
balqis |
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hash
Joined: 17 Dec 2014
Posts: 456
Location: Wadi Jinn
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| balqis wrote: |
Would you like to work with someone who is your equal in terms of experience and qualification, but has ''better negotiating skill'' [ i.e. is a crafty devil's advocate ] and earns more than you?
Would you like to find out that though your equal, s/he managed to get more than you? And for no reason at all?? Or because s/he is handsome and has a charming gab?
And all of it would happen at a government university, where rules are claimed to be transparent and fair, and also clear-cut and rigid, to curb corruption, so prevalent everywhere else.balqis |
You're describing a hypothetical situation in which your argument is based on one's knowledge of an employee's salary which is another hypothetical premise. (The only way one can know another's salary for sure is if one is shown someone else's payslip...a highly unlikely event. And even then you can't be sure the payslip hasn't been "doctored" to show an untrue salary. You could, of course, have a "friend" in payroll who would surreptitiously show you someone else's salary but you know, now we're approaching the realm of fantasy).
My point is, your reason for haggling over a salary is fictitious. Since you can't know another's salary, how can you haggle over an offered salary on the basis that someone else "might" have a higher salary than the one offered you? Now you're going from the realm of fantasy to the realm of clinical delusion.
If you're satisfied with the salary offered, accept it. If not, turn the offer down. There will ALWAYS be someone who is getting paid more than you are.....and someone who is getting paid less than you are for substantially the same job.
By the way, I've always advocated and remarked upon the fact that APPEARANCE does count in a job hunt. Naturally, I've been trashed here and elsewhere for holding such politically incorrect views. Problem is, I'm right and they're wrong. I've seen it in action too many times to deny appearance is an important factor in hiring.
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Turning up sober and clean-shaven for interview can help. I jest not. |
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balqis
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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Hope indirect.object will be able to understand my point correctly, not incorrectly.
balqis |
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scot47
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Posts: 15343
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| I have never heard of anyone successfully negotiating with a university in KSA to get more. They make an offer. You accept or decline. The End. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| indirect.object wrote: |
What would be the expected government salary for a language instructor in a university foundation program - does anybody know?
Say it's around 14,000 per year. Is it, as I expect it is, impossible to negotiate that, or is this totally down to the negotiating skills of the person offered the job? |
I agree with scot47; either take it or leave it, especially since direct-hire employers use a set of specific criteria when determining salaries---one of those factors being the all-important verified previous employment. Besides, what special skills and/or knowledge do you have to offer that would justify the employer bumping up that number? It isn't enough to simply state that you feel you should get more because, in your mind, living in KSA is a physical and mental "hardship." Or that you found out others' offers were higher than yours (due to their stronger qualifications/experience). Or you contend you're entitled to a handsome salary solely because Saudi Arabia is a wealthy country. The reality is that these positions entail teaching English language skills and not nuclear physics in a degree program, as reflected in the salaries.
That said, if you're adamant about negotiating an increase in the salary, the best approach is to ask the employer what you could do to improve the offer. But don't hold your breath. |
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fledex
Joined: 05 Jun 2011
Posts: 342
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| I've never been able to successfully negotiate the initial job offer, but I have successfully gotten terms changed after working for one year and the contract is being renewed. These are things like salary increase, starting time, and family travel. |
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paul.conlong
Joined: 31 Mar 2015
Posts: 84
Location: Rochdale, UK
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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| On the KSA applications do they ask what your previous salery was and how much you expect to get? |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| paul.conlong wrote: |
| On the KSA applications do they ask what your previous salery was and how much you expect to get? |
There's no common application form that employers use, if they use them at all. As for salary, it's doubtful you'll be asked what your pay expectations are since many of the ads indicate a salary range (http://www.eslcafe.com/joblist/). |
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nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| paul.conlong wrote: |
| On the KSA applications do they ask what your previous salery was and how much you expect to get? |
NIT in Bahra (half-way between Jeddah and Makkah) asked me, which was not a very comfortable question. I wonder how it would look if we didn't answer that. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| nichtta wrote: |
| paul.conlong wrote: |
| On the KSA applications do they ask what your previous salery was and how much you expect to get? |
NIT in Bahra (half-way between Jeddah and Makkah) asked me, which was not a very comfortable question. I wonder how it would look if we didn't answer that. |
What was your response to that question? (You can always ask the interviewer what the salary range is for the position when confronted with this question.)
They ended up offering you a piddly 9350 SAR regardless, so it's obvious they weren't going to be flexible with that number. |
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nichtta
Joined: 25 Apr 2015
Posts: 110
Location: Istanbul, Turkey
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, it wasn't a verbal question but rather on their application, which I had to fill out. As you said, it probably didn't make a difference because I was given the worst offer ever. I just thought it was the strangest thing to ask... |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| nichtta wrote: |
| Well, it wasn't a verbal question but rather on their application, which I had to fill out. As you said, it probably didn't make a difference because I was given the worst offer ever. I just thought it was the strangest thing to ask... |
Frankly, that type of question isn't so uncommon applications in the US. In fact, some job ads even state that applicants must indicate their expected salary on their cover letter.
You'd mentioned on your other thread that you have an unrelated BA, CELTA, and a few years of teaching experience. There could be a couple of reasons why you were offered 9350 SAR. For example, employers want to see teaching experience gained after completing TEFL training. That experience should also be relevant to the position---that is, experience teaching adults as opposed to young children or a mix of ages. I don't know if this describes your teaching background, but I suspect there's something there that caused NITI to offer such a low salary. Regardless, that shouldn't keep you from applying with other companies, if you're still interested in KSA. Just make sure prospective employers are aware you intend to bring your wife. |
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