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AmerikanSultana
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 10
Location: Istanbul
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 Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:34 pm Post subject: terrible contract offer |
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Okay so this was my first job offer in KSA and I thought it sucked so I turned it down.
3500usd/month
Free accommodation
48 hour work week (Fridays off)
1 month off in summer, plus state holidays
RT airfare
Public Health insurance
This was offered through inAdvance which was strangely offering through ICEAT for PNU. is it me or is that weird?
Anyway, I have 6 years teaching experience with 3 in uni plus an online M.Ed. I know the online degree hurts me but geez, c'mon.... KSA is a tough post! I also have a CELTA and 2 bachelor's.
Do you think this is as good as it's gonna get for me because of the online degree? |
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Gamajorba
Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Some of my colleague's wives work at PNU and don't have that bad of a time! |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 1:07 am Post subject: |
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| AmerikanSultana wrote: |
This was offered through inAdvance which was strangely offering through ICEAT for PNU. is it me or is that weird?
Anyway, I have 6 years teaching experience with 3 in uni plus an online M.Ed. I know the online degree hurts me but geez, c'mon.... KSA is a tough post! I also have a CELTA and 2 bachelor's.
Do you think this is as good as it's gonna get for me because of the online degree? |
That salary of 3500 SAR is expected for the following two reasons:
1) Your online MA is completely out of the picture---on paper, your qualifications are a CELTA, two unrelated BAs, and six years of experience; and
2) ICEAT, like all the other contracting companies, is essentially a for-profit organization with a major interest in keeping operating costs (including employees' salaries) at a minimum in order to maximize the company's revenue. In other words, it's a business out to make money.
As for inAdvance handling the recruiting, that's not unusual; some companies contract with third-party recruitment agencies for that function, especially when there's mass hiring. |
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Makkah
Joined: 08 Oct 2014
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: Re: terrible contract offer |
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| AmerikanSultana wrote: |
Okay so this was my first job offer in KSA and I thought it sucked so I turned it down.
3500usd/month
............
Anyway, I have 6 years teaching experience with 3 in uni plus an online M.Ed. I know the online degree hurts me but geez, c'mon.... KSA is a tough post! I also have a CELTA and 2 bachelor's.
Do you think this is as good as it's gonna get for me because of the online degree? |
Some will dispute it, but your quals and exp. are worth more than 3500USD. Where I am there are guys getting a lot more, though we entered KSA about 2 to 3 years ago.
FWIW, if I am buying a service I (such as your service is being bought) I will try to get it as cheap as possible. If a person with great quals and yrs. of exp. and is willing to accept a low offer then that is his/her problem, the contractor / employer just laughs all the way to the bank with the great deal he got. Equally, if you refuse the offer, they will just go to the next person on the list. That's the market in KSA today. |
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currentaffairs
Joined: 22 Aug 2012
Posts: 828
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| The offer works out at 13,125 riyals a month. That is about par for your quals and experience in my opinion. So, you have three different views on this! If you had more experience and a 'proper' MA then you would probably be getting into the 14,000 riyals a month sphere. To be honest, teachers with 10 years of experience and a PGCE/MA in TESOL are getting around 14,000-14,500 riyals per month plus housing in many jobs in Saudi. |
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nwtefl
Joined: 20 May 2015
Posts: 148
Location: England
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Wow $3500 = £2284 = that's terrible. |
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AmerikanSultana
Joined: 23 Apr 2015
Posts: 10
Location: Istanbul
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: |
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Hey! Thanks for the replies - it gives me some idea about what I'm dealing with in KSA. I will apply to some more schools and see what I'm offered. I just don't see the point in living in those conditions without decent compensation. I was originally hoping for 4,000USD/month plus the free housing. Maybe I'm dreaming but who knows? That original job offer could've been possible without 48 hour weeks and short summer holiday. But I don't wanna sell myself short, you know. I saw jobs in Oman for 3600USD /month. I'll probably apply to Oman and UAE as well since they don't differentiate between an online or in-class M.ED.
Wish me luck! !  |
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Gamajorba
Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 10:44 am Post subject: |
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| AmerikanSultana wrote: |
Hey! Thanks for the replies - it gives me some idea about what I'm dealing with in KSA. I will apply to some more schools and see what I'm offered. I just don't see the point in living in those conditions without decent compensation. I was originally hoping for 4,000USD/month plus the free housing. Maybe I'm dreaming but who knows? That original job offer could've been possible without 48 hour weeks and short summer holiday. But I don't wanna sell myself short, you know. I saw jobs in Oman for 3600USD /month. I'll probably apply to Oman and UAE as well since they don't differentiate between an online or in-class M.ED.
Wish me luck! ! |
Plus living in Oman/UAE is a lot more bearable than KSA! a LOT more |
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BajaLaJaula
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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@currentaffairs.....
"a proper" MA in TEFL...there is no such thing...Let's be honest about what the TEFL world is really all about here.
How does a degree is TEFL stack up against an MBA or an MS in any other area of study.
It is just English language after all....not rocket science.
All MA's in TEFL are not worth the paper they are printed on...whether you attended in person to get it or did all the work through an online degree.
Not that hypocrisy is a foreign concept in KSA...but they (Saudis) offer their students online degree programs...yet do not want to accept an online degree from the foreign teachers.
An online degree from a good university actually requires students to do more work than if you were to attend in person.
The sad reality is that the ability to teach English is no longer a valuable commodity. Even places like KSA are figuring this out now. You will see more and more local teachers teaching English as a Foreign language in Saudi....just like it is done in Europe, Asia and Latin America. |
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balqis
Joined: 30 Jul 2006
Posts: 373
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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I reckon BajaLaJaula you will be stoned for your comment re TEFL M.A. degrees, though it is true.
balqis |
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Gamajorba
Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 357
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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| BajaLaJaula wrote: |
Not that hypocrisy is a foreign concept in KSA...but they (Saudis) offer their students online degree programs...yet do not want to accept an online degree from the foreign teachers.
An online degree from a good university actually requires students to do more work than if you were to attend in person. |
YES! I made this point a while back! |
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BajaLaJaula
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I am not trying to take anything away from those folks who happen to be very good at their craft...
However, I have seen too many teachers that don't actually teach very well, and instead feel that their knowledge of grammar and phonology is what makes them worth the extra bucks...when in fact spouting out grammar rules and knowledge of collocates and minimal pairs is done more for their own benefit rather than actually helping students learn another language.
Food for thought for those TEFLRs that can speak at least one other language.
How did you become fluent in another language?
By studying and memorizing grammar rules......?
Or by learning some basic grammar and vocabulary and then practicing and learning in real-world situations?
Did your MA in TEFL make you a better teacher?
Let the stone throwing commence. |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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Ach, well. I suppose if 'all MAs are not worth the paper they're printed on' (kindly overlooking the poor wording and punctuation here), then obviously mine's not either. Never mind that since getting the piece of paper a decade ago, my salary and benefits have consistently been roughly double what I used to get prior to the MA. Sigh. What a waste.
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All MA's in TEFL are not worth the paper they are printed on...whether you attended in person to get it or did all the work through an online degree.
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BajaLaJaula
Joined: 25 Jan 2007
Posts: 267
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yes...true.
And now you can boast of having an MA in TEFL.
At least you can make some more money...That's why teachers get into the profession after all...to make money.
Now take out your red pen...and start correcting my grammar...makes you feel superior, doesn't it? |
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spiral78
Joined: 05 Apr 2004
Posts: 11534
Location: On a Short Leash
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| Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Food for thought for those TEFLRs that can speak at least one other language.
How did you become fluent in another language?
By studying and memorizing grammar rules......?
Or by learning some basic grammar and vocabulary and then practicing and learning in real-world situations?
Did your MA in TEFL make you a better teacher? |
I'm functional in two 'foreign' languages. My MA in TEFL focused quite a lot on effective pedagogy for adult learners, and somewhat on 'grammar rules.' As they should; the two types of knowledge go hand-in-hand in the toolbox of an effective teacher. Yes, it made me a better teacher. Nor am I alone in this - I'm really not special.
As I recently had to point out on another thread, it's common to assume that one is a great teacher when one's got little/no education about what effective teaching really is - essentially, not having the quals means not having a real yardstick to judge by.
Regardless of your hopes and dreams and 'feelings' about your qualifications, in this part of the world the MA is usually required for decent jobs. It's not going to change, and in fact will likely become more and more true as more and more teachers upgrade their qualifications. The field for un/less qualified teachers will only continue to narrow in future. |
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