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Am I thinking in the correct way?
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AGoodStory



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmmm. . . very interesting, BBB and Mother. That totally contradicts the experience of a former colleague of mine (Czech) who wanted to work in Mexico, but was denied a work permit just last year.

There is this thread of Guy's from 2015, but it seems limited to DF:
Quote:

I've been hearing about immigration cracking down on non-native speakers trying to obtain a visa for work as English teachers. At least in DF, the word is that if you aren't from an English speaking country, you're not going to get the visa if offered a job as an English teacher, regardless of experience/qualifications.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=110644&highlight=nonnative

Is it possible that these teachers you've known have other legitimate reasons to qualify for a visa? (Spouse, family, dual citizen, etc.?) If not, then I'm stumped! Now I'm curious enough that I want to take a look at the INM site to see if the requirements are spelled out--although my Spanish may be too wobbly.

ETA: I just read BBB's post again, and see that the teachers she knows were given visas based on being an English teacher, so the above questions concerning the visa don't apply. I see that they were also located in DF, so that differs from Guy's experience, as well.
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My experience wasn't firsthand admittedly but it's what some folks in HR at a few schools had been saying.

Quote:
That totally contradicts the experience of a former colleague of mine (Czech) who wanted to work in Mexico, but was denied a work permit just last year.


What were the circumstances if you know and can share?

Quote:
Is it possible that these teachers you've known have other legitimate reasons to qualify for a visa? (Spouse, family, dual citizen, etc.?) If not, then I'm stumped! Now I'm curious enough that I want to take a look at the INM site to see if the requirements are spelled out--although my Spanish may be too wobbly.


Don't forget to factor in that people do often lie, saying they have the resident visa when they don't. One line I hear often - 'oh, it's en tramite'. Not saying that's the case with BBB's examples - just something I've run into often enough to be worth mentioning.


Last edited by Guy Courchesne on Sat Jan 16, 2016 1:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AGoodStory wrote:


Is it possible that these teachers you've known have other legitimate reasons to qualify for a visa? (Spouse, family, dual citizen, etc.?) If not, then I'm stumped! Now I'm curious enough that I want to take a look at the INM site to see if the requirements are spelled out--although my Spanish may be too wobbly.


In at least one case, it was just having lived in the UK and attending both an undergrad and graduate school in residence in the UK (this person was a native Spanish speaker from another Latin American country. The others I met at conferences so I'm not sure if they had a Mexican family member or not.
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AGoodStory



Joined: 26 Feb 2010
Posts: 738

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:

What were the circumstances if you know and can share?


I don't know much detail. He's in his 30's, not especially well-qualified (degree, CELTA, fair amount of PD,) but with several years of solid experience and stellar references. He was in Mexico last summer partly for personal reasons, and partly to explore employment possibilites. He was offered a position at a language school, and another at a colegio. He originally intended to accept the colegio position, but then, for reasons I don't know, became uneasy about it, and accepted the other job instead. He then left Mexico, went home for a week to tie up loose ends and complete some necessary paperwork at the embassy. This would have been in August 2015.

That was the last I knew until just recently, when he said that immigration had denied his work permit to teach English--because he is not a native speaker, and his passport is not from an approved country. The puzzling part is that his English is entirely fluent and almost without accent. He's an excellent teacher, and I wouldn't hesitate to hire him ahead of any similarly qualified native speaker.
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Guy Courchesne



Joined: 10 Mar 2003
Posts: 9650
Location: Mexico City

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, that meshes with what I've been told.

And it goes beyond English teaching as well...I've had nothing but problems trying to assist Indian and Pakistani science and math teachers come into the country for work. Similar immigration issues there. The only route for this group is having another passport from the US, Canada, UK, etc.
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nomad soul



Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world

PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lotteloes:

Maybe you could look into something like this group: Granada Language Encounters.
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Lotteloes



Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 20
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:53 pm    Post subject: Am I thinking the correct way? Reply with quote

Thanks to all for the comment and the interesting facts about visa requirements. As my plan is to start as a volunteer, research learned me that the rules for a visa are not that strict than if you are applying for a paid job.

@Spiral: I am not one of those Dutch people who assume that they speak perfectly English. I am very aware of mistakes I make, either in speaking and writing. That's why I am disappointed in the C2-course I was advised to do. I don't need to expand my vocabulary but I need to learn which tense needs to be used where and why (and other very useful grammar rules).

As per March I will stop with my English clases and I am currently looking for a private teacher to help me with the things that I need to brush up.

@Nomad Soul and MotherF: thanks for the advice to help me with improving my English. At my work I speak a lot with persons who are native English and they say all that my English is almost perfect. This is even said by a former English teacher. But anything to improve will be useful.

I am currently waiting for the results of my C1-exam that I did in the first weekend of February and today I had my interview to be allowed to do the 4 week TrinityCertTesol in Malaga in July. I passed the assessment test. Again I was told that I need to work hard on my grammar (and handwriting) but that they were confident I would pass the 4 week training.
After granting my team member the possibility to have a month of unpaid leave I decided that she owed me the same, so that's why I can do the TrinityCertTesol without resigning from my job.

I didn't know that the Netherlands was on the top 4 of rose exporting countries but I knew Kenya was one of them. I might combine teaching English with teaching Dutch as well Wink

If I have missed to give a reply on some comments, let me know and I will answer as soon as I can.
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kona



Joined: 17 Sep 2011
Posts: 188
Location: USA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2016 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guy Courchesne wrote:
Yeah, that meshes with what I've been told.

And it goes beyond English teaching as well...I've had nothing but problems trying to assist Indian and Pakistani science and math teachers come into the country for work. Similar immigration issues there. The only route for this group is having another passport from the US, Canada, UK, etc.


That's a shame; when I was in Guadalajara in 2009, there seemed to be quite a few very capable non-native English teachers there (A friend from Slovakia was managing a Berlitz center in Tlaquepaque; if I had to guess, I'd think her English was probably B2/C1 range). There also seemed to be quite a few English teachers without bachelors degrees or CELTA/TEFL certs teaching at language institutes (although some were Chicano, so they didn't need a visa).

Overall, Mexico didn't seem to put too much emphasis on being a native teacher; being a competent teacher seemed more important. Also, a CELTA/TEFL cert seemed more important than a BA (or an anglophone passport, for that matter), but there was still plenty of institutes that would hire someone without it. OP, I'd think the restrictions on your ability to work in Mexico would more likely come from getting a proper visa, rather than any lack of demand in the market. YMMV.

I'm thinking that the rest of Latin America might be similar in this respect, but take that with a huge grain of salt, as I only have experience in Mexico and Korea.

OP, seems like you already made up your mind on your plan of action, but if I could offer another possible route you might take: sign up for Spanish (or other) classes at UNAM in Mexico City and get a student visa. They're a government university and so offer pretty cheap courses to international students (it's free for Mexicans). If you have a CELTA by then, I can't imagine you struggling all that much for work, seeing as how the new visa regs in Mexico have made it pretty difficult to get a proper work visa, so I'd think demand has shot up. You'd also be in the second largest city in the Western Hemisphere, and, depending on your current day job, could conceivably find work in your current profession as well. On top of all this, IMHO, Mexico City is amazing, and would be high on my list of places to teach if I were to return to Latin America.

I'll let the other posters teaching in Mexico weigh in, as they have far more experience teaching there than I do.
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MotherF



Joined: 07 Jun 2010
Posts: 1450
Location: 17�48'N 97�46'W

PostPosted: Sat Mar 12, 2016 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are many many many qualified non-natives working as English teachers in Mexico, they are Mexicans. There are also man native speakers working in Mexico. There are also many Mexicans who speak English very well, well enough to teach it, who are out of work. So when you give visas to foreigners to do the job of teaching English, you are giving them a job there are Mexicans who could do. There is an argument (I don't support it) that a NATIVE speaker of English is better than a non-native. (Native speakers make different teachers, they could be better or worse) But that's negated when you give a Dutch speaker a visa to work as an English teacher. Therefore, i understand this position on the part of immigration officials.
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BadBeagleBad



Joined: 23 Aug 2010
Posts: 1186
Location: 24.18105,-103.25185

PostPosted: Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MotherF wrote:
There are many many many qualified non-natives working as English teachers in Mexico, they are Mexicans. There are also man native speakers working in Mexico. There are also many Mexicans who speak English very well, well enough to teach it, who are out of work. So when you give visas to foreigners to do the job of teaching English, you are giving them a job there are Mexicans who could do. There is an argument (I don't support it) that a NATIVE speaker of English is better than a non-native. (Native speakers make different teachers, they could be better or worse) But that's negated when you give a Dutch speaker a visa to work as an English teacher. Therefore, i understand this position on the part of immigration officials.


I agree with you. I know many Mexicans with degrees and even advanced degrees who are FAR better teachers than a native speaker who MIGHT have a (more or less worthless) online Cert, if that, but show up with the attitude that they are "all that" because they are a native speaker. Some have a knack for teaching, but some never get over the arrogance that being a native speaker is ALL that need, and feel insulted that they are not, without any training, experience or anything, making more than a highly educated Mexican teacher.
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Lotteloes



Joined: 03 May 2015
Posts: 20
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Sun Jun 26, 2016 3:37 pm    Post subject: Am I thinking in the correct way? Reply with quote

Thanks for the suggested possibility for working in Mexico. I will take it into account. Smile
As everybody is saying that (if possible due to visa and other requirements) you have to be on the spot to get a teaching job in Latin America, I am investigating all options to get there and explore the situation inside out.

Perhaps it might seem that I already have made up my mind, in what to do and how to do it, but that's not true. Even more due to the change of plans of doing the 4-week training course and then going back to my current job.
I have been looking at some volunteering organisations on the internet and found some interesting opportunities. They are currently recruiting for July so that is not an option, but the next round will probably start around October/November with a start date of January.

I passed my CAE with 196 points, just 4 points less for the CPE (I know I would not get the CPE-certificate but it would be nice to have the result somewhere mentioned). It took some time to get over that and be happy with the result.

In March, April and May I had private grammar lessons which let to some arguments with my teacher as she was in writing exercises correcting things that were correct. But she was capable of explaining some important rules, which I now to be more aware of, trying to apply them correctly.

I have just finished the pre-course tasks and I'm looking forward to the course that starts on the 4th of July. Smile
It will be very hard work and I hope I will have a nice group and (of course) that I will pass.
Almost a year has passed and it seems finally happening.
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