Job Discussion Forums

[ghost]

Right now, Turkey is one of the best `deals` in Europe for ESL teaching, when you take all the variables into account (free housing/and or subsidized, cheap cost of living, etc...), reasonable hours..

If Turkey does eventually get accepted into the Euro. Union, and eventually adopts the Euro., things might change dramatically for teachers, because the much higher costs of living will offset the previous advantages mentioned.

As an example...Spain (before the Euro. Union) used to be a favourite choice for ESL teachers, including those from North America. After costs were taken into account, the typical ESL teacher in Spain in the 1980`s and early 90`s had much more disposable income than is the case now in Spain, where average salaries of 800 euros a month mean that most teachers are spending around 80% of their salaries on rent, leaving them with peanuts and small change. During the years of the Peseta in Spain, the country (Spain) was a magnate for ``hippies`` wanting to live on the cheap...that was in the 1970`s and 80`s.

Now Spain is up there with the other industrialized nations in being an expensive nation to live in. Ghost spent 10 days in Barcelona in February 2003 looking for work and accommodation....and found the city to be expensive and overrated as a destination...a quick decision to hop on a plane to Bangkok (Thailand) for a two month tour of South East Asia was the only recourse for Ghost who saw his daily budget eaten up to the tune of 50 - 100 Euros a day in Spain....(the 100 euros a day, would prove to last for at least a week in all the countries ghost visited in South East Asia - Thailand, Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, Sri Lanka).

Another example of a country that was a ``good deal`` for ESL teachers and has now become a ``poor deal`` is Greece. Since the Euro. the ``average`` Greek has seen his salary give him/her much less in terms of disposable income....and real poverty has returned to Greece for millions. When the Drachma was replaced with the EURO, the Greeks were at first optimistic. The optimism has now turned to disillusionment and anger, because their standards of living (the average Greek worker) has diminished so much. A recent documentary on Greece shows that many families in Greece can now only afford to eat meat once a week. Sad stuff. As for ESL teachers in Greece - as the ``fat one`` (El Gordo) previously told us - see forum 2003 May), ESL teachers in Greece have to dig into their personal savings if they want to live and teach in the country.

Beyond the political and religious ramifications of Turkey joining the Euro. Union, it would be interesting to know the views of DMB, F.G.T., Yaramaz and their sisters and brothers.....

[jeddahteacher]

For turkey to join the EU would be a disaster for both.
Only the rich in both would benefit.

[FGT]

If and when Turkey joins the EU, I predict a brief honeymoon period followed by the realisation that the grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence.

One thought which occurred to me a while ago was how much it would cost Turkey (and the owners, businessmen, entrepreneurs etc) to conform to EU standards re emissions, standards, labelling of products etc etc. At the moment there are NO standards. Business is booming but is largely unchecked.

I think Turkey missed an opportunity when the Soviet Union collapsed, in not allying itself enough with the other Turkic speaking countries. They could have become a big fish in a medium sized pool instead of, potentially, becoming yet another small fish (economically) in a large pool. A Turkic market could have challenged the old Common Market and have become partners in some areas. Turkey isn't Arab but neither is it European. Being a poor relation doesn't suit the Turkish perception of self.

Selfishly, my life will improve with Turkey in the EU. No more need for work/resident permission, equivalent rights to UK, and so on. I'm OK but I'm not Turkish.

[ghost]

FGT might have less paper work to go through if Turkey joins the EU, but I do not think her position would improve as a teacher, especially from an economic point of view.

Right now her salary of 1.5 billion gives her a lot of money in her pocket at the end of the month, because her rent is subsidized and other expenses (eating out, transport etc...) are dirt cheap compared with 'rich' Euro. countries. That would all change if Turkey became a part of Europe, similar to what has happened to Greece, creating a large exodus of teachers from the Hellenic land (ESL teachers no longer being able to "afford" the 'cost' of working and living in Greece).

For that reason, one could say that from a selfish standpoint, ESL teachers in Turkey should hope that Turkey does not join the Union. Things are much better for them (ESL teachers in Turkey) the way they are at present.

[FGT]

Ghost - I don't believe I said my salary was 1.5 billion a month. If I did I was wrong.

[richard ame]

Hi

What I read and what I see every day suggests that Europe is already in Turkey . It has been said that the 2015 is a date that will see that dream become a reality and Turkey will be a full member of the E.C .
I have mixed feelings about this and as someone has already said the result is that the country's cost of living will rise dramatically . The good news is that those of us who are property owners are going to see our investments over here make huge advances . For those of you who have'nt got that far yet ,pull your finger out, there are still plenty of chances to make a killing on the housing market .
Sadly the things which are unique to this country may be lost as Brussels dictates policies on every aspect of life here ,but I won't miss some of the more distasteful sights and smells .

[vre]

I'm against Turkey joining, like many other posters. It would be disastrous. Culture can't change over night. Europe accepting such a large nation with such a strong military is difficult. Cultural diversity here would make it impossible to implement regulations and standardisation from Ireland to Adana! I mean, can you imagine? And it would be such a pity to try to standardise so many of these things.

Yes, there are some things we don't like about here but they won't go away (they havent in some other E.U states) and what will they gain? Their roads aren't too bad thank you very much, and?... . If Turkey kept its brains in Turkey, and invested more in its people, it could be one of the most powerful and richest nations (not just financially but also technologically).

There are too many implications for such a large and culturally diverse nation. Turkey wouldnt suit being put into a so called 'Union', it deserves to stay unique, even if there are costs, but there are more costs if it joins.

[vre]

Ghost is absolutely right about poor Greece.

[yaramaz]

I like Turkey just the way it is, thank you, warts and horse carts and lunacy and all. If I wanted EU conformity, I'd have stayed in the Eu. I went back to Eire a few years ago after almost a decade away and saw what the Celtic Tiger did to some of the places where I used to live, places full of artists and guinness and cozy pubsand music and, admittedly, lots of people on the dole, a lot of hitch hiking and houses without a landline muchless a mobile phone. Now? Yoiks-- pricey, yuppie, trendy, martinis and mobiles and BMWs... And the artists and writers and musicians I knew are struggling even more to get by in the new richer, more expensive country, being elbowed out by those who can make money. Not my cup of tea.

Money isnt everything.

The veggies are better here anyway.

And the long-distance buses.

And the lentil soup at Haci Baba's. Dont let the EU regulate the soup!