Job Discussion Forums

[solidsnake13]

Hi all,
I plan on moving to China to begin teaching next fall at a Tier 2/3 city, but have a few questions that I was unable to get clear answers on (although this being China there is no such thing as a clear answer) after my research.

1. Applying without my diploma: I graduate next May, and I know the peak hiring season is April/May. Is it okay to apply and use my transcript and say that I will receive my diploma in mid May? Or just wait till I have it for applying? (I'd rather get an early start)

2. Going to China early: I would like to go to China ASAP after I graduate, as my SO will be living there by then. Once I get my Z-Visa, is there anything stopping me from going to China? Assuming I accept an offer once I get my diploma in mid-May, and roughly 4-6 weeks for the invitation and Visa process, could I be in China in June/July? I would of course inform the school and I would be staying with my SO, so the apartment not being ready is of no issue. (my guess is the apartment is the main reason they make you come at the last moment?)
I would rather not sit around all summer waiting.

3. This is more of a curious inquiry, but is it not unheard of to make the transition from teaching to an actual career? (assuming teaching is not your career) My degree is in Engineering Physics and Economics, and while I have taught at language camps in the past and enjoyed it, eventually I will need to start my career. Just curious if it's not near impossible to move into business/engineering after a few years of building connections. The cities will either be Dallian or Zhuhai, both of which I've heard (Dalian more so) are thriving in terms of engineering and international business. My SO's family runs a decent international import/export business, so I would start out with a network.

Thanks for any replies, and I tried my best to answer all of the newbie questions through searches and research.

[vikeologist]

1. Shouldn't be a big problem. You say diploma. Is this American English for a degree? You'll have an BSc, right? Anyway, the peak season for applying starts in April, but a lot of unis don't find out which teachers are staying or going until May. Anyway, it's possible that some employers may be put off in April by your not having a copy of your degree yet. I suppose they may want to give jobs to people they can start the process for in case you drop out in between the job offer and getting the actual degree.

Anyway, you shouldn't assume that you'd get a job quickly. You'll need to apply to a lot of places, probably. I mean obviously some people get a hit from the first Uni they apply to.

If you're just graduating, how old are you? If you will be 21 or 22, there may be a separate issue there because the authorities might question your having a year's work / teaching experience at such a young age. Many people sort of fudge the year's experience, but it's harder for employers to do if you're younger than 23, because it sort of highlights the issue.

2. This unfortunately would be a problem. When you come to China, your employer has a month to change the visa into a residence permit. They probably wouldn't want to do that until you've actually started working for them. So I'm afraid the accommodation isn't the only reason. I'm not sure if your employer would be able to apply for the residence permit 2 or 3 months before the start of your contract, but I really doubt they'd want to because they'd be responsible for what you do during the summer.

3. No idea.

[roadwalker]

If you're talking about a university or public school job, no, the apartment is not the main consideration for the school if you were to arrive early. The main considerations are 1) the summer vacation and 2) responsibility for you.

The Chinese academic year is from September to July. The staff don't want to have to do much in July or August, including the 'international exchange office' or foreign affairs office or whatever it is called. If you enter on a z-visa, the school has to almost immediately begin working on getting the foreign teacher a residence permit before the visa expires (30 days even though it is marked "000"). So they will shuttle the teacher to various stops including the local police to register the teacher's address, and an approved hospital to get a medical clearance. They use the medical clearance to get a Foreign Expert Certificate and then finally they apply for the Residence Permit which is the teacher's travel document for entering and exiting China, among other things.

Also, by sponsoring you, the school is taking official responsibility for your safety and your behavior. Schools will often make rules about notifications whenever the teacher leaves the area etc, although some are more relaxed about it. No one wants an injured or bad behaving teacher on their permanent record.

For those reasons, the prospective school will likely insist and aim for an entry just before classes begin, such as late August. Language training centers, on the other hand, have work throughout the year and usually want teachers as soon as possible.

I think question one probably depends on the vagueries of location and schools and their connections. For question 3 do you mean a career in China or back in your home country?

[solidsnake13]

To vikeologist:
1. Yes, diploma as in getting my bachelors degree.
Hm so I guess it may be better to hold off on sending out my applications until I can include a copy of my degree.
And yeah I plan on going for the quantity route, already have a nice big list of schools/unis to apply to. Was hoping to accept the contract when I get my diploma and not start applying, but if I can't go to China early this doesn't matter as much to me anymore.

And I know about the age issue, I'll be 22. From what I've read the tier 2/3 cities should make it a bit easier, but I know it'll make my application process tougher.

2. Oh okay, I thought that might be a problem. So I guess really the earliest I could come would most likely be a month before my start date and it'll be up to the school's decision. I know my SO's father has his guanxi for getting all sorts of Visas... but not sure I want to dive into that. Especially with Visa runs to HK being much harder.

To roadwalker:
Okay, I'm trying to avoid the training center route, but I may give some more look into it for my first year. If I were to start at one in around June, would applying for a school the next year be fine? IIRC, the RP lasts one year so I would be stuck without one from June until the schools start in Sept...

The locations of the schools would most likely be in Dalian or Zhuhai.
And for question 3 I meant working in China. I have my connections back in the USA, but if I can stay in Asia for my career that would be the best of both worlds for me.

Thanks!

[vikeologist]

Well, probably the earliest you could come would be about two weeks before your start date. Anyway, you'd have to talk to your FAO. I know there should be a way around this, but I can't think of one.

If you're going to be 22, you really need to make sure that you are piling up relevant experience. There are places where the Foreign affairs bureau taken a very adaptable view of the regulations. Dalian isn't going to be one of them. You'll need to make sure that by next spring you have 1 year's experience of actual ESL teaching because your age is going to really stand out. I think there are cities where the chances of anybody under 23 getting a FEC are zero.

You haven't mentioned having a teaching qualification. If you don't have one of those then you'll only have 1 of the 3 things that you legally need. (Whether you need a degree, experience and teaching qualification to be legal is a debatable issue. As you said in your first post, things aren't always clear in China. However, it is by far the most common application of the regulations.)

It sounds like you may need to play the guanxi card.

[jimpellow]

I will let other responders focus on the need to meet certain visa qualifications (2 years experience, obtaining a criminal background check etc.)

"Anyway, you shouldn't assume that you'd get a job quickly. You'll need to apply to a lot of places, probably. I mean obviously some people get a hit from the first Uni they apply to."

I think you should assume that you will get a job very quickly, and many offers very quickly, and some of the best paying ones in China that can be had without a teaching diploma.

Physics and economics are huge demand subjects for prep programs. The demand is unbelievably strong for those that can teach physics.

Besides some hurdles with current visa requirements, the biggest thing you need to look out for is having recruiters and schools take advantage of you. Even with your lack of experience you should be able to get 20k a month easy in a tier 2 city with accommodation (usually on campus which is problematic) and long paid breaks.

If that is of interest to you, play up the physics and economics degrees and any relevant experience in teaching those subjects.

When I was teaching Economics, Business, IELTS and IT as prep courses one year the program placed three different physics teachers who still made more money than me and sat around in their apartments most of the day day. All three were crazy and would take off for another waiting job within a month or two, repeatedly. Finally the program gave up trying to find new ones and dropped the course.

There are hence positions year round. And the demand has only grown stronger since my related experience four years ago. But what has also grown is more scammers moving into the university prep field so proceed cautiously.

(PS. To comment on one aspect of the requirements for a visa. You are correct that the seconds and third tier areas are less likely to demand two years experience. Some jurisdictions will also accept in lieu of two years experience a TEFL in China certification. Also be aware that if you are American, most jurisdictions are currently requiring an FBI background check which will take almost four months to complete on average.)

(PSS. Unless you are gay, I am surprised that your SO would approve of Dalian considering the famous mei nu. But, I would caution on trying to build rapport with the guanxi too quickly. Chinese are very hierarchical and it takes time to get to understand them and hold your value. You may be better off in a city like Tianjin which is the aeronautic hub of China and proceed to the nesting ground of your SO's guanxi once you are seasoned a little so to say.)

[solidsnake13]

I've already read through many threads on the requirements (FBI check, medical, etc.) and have plenty of time for those, plus many threads on the two year experience. I didn't want to be another one of those newbies asking the same questions again. I know the problems of not having two years and have planned accordingly.
Although I am curious as to how long the FBI check is valid for, I've read conflicting reports. I figured I would start that this winter so it's done no later than April.
I will have time over summer to get a TEFL if that's necessary, but I don't think it should be.

I did look into teaching Physics and Econ, but I think it would be best to hold off for a year or two, at least for Physics, as my teaching experience is limited to German Language Camps, I would want some more classroom experience before teaching subjects that are very important.
I do have a lot of work experience, well more than two years if I add it all up, but of course not the post graduate experience that they want. (and also mainly engineering experience)

Haha funny that you mention the mei nu, she has brought it up with her Chinese friends and has expressed some worries (I stand out a lot in Asia from my athletic background), but she herself is a gorgeous and tall half-Chinese half-Caucasian hybrid, so that makes things a bit easier for her.
And yeah the first year or two I just want to get a feeling for China before trying to really network, I have lived in Singapore for a few years as a kid and half a year studying in Korea recently, but China is still mostly new to me besides vacations there.

And I guess I'll end up talking to the FAO or some Visa experts on what I could do for getting there early... not a huge deal but would be nice. Perhaps something like getting my Z Visa but coming in on a different type of Visa, then using the Z Visa later. (if that's even possible) Either way I'm not dumb enough to come without my Z Visa after reading through this forum haha.

And if Dalian doesn't workout, Zhuhai is fine too.

[doogsville]

Given your age and timing, I think a language school would be a better fit for your first year. It'll also give you valuable teaching experience, which will be useful in a university job later. Zhuhai universities won't look at your application unless you have relevant teaching experience. There's a school called TPR in Zhuhai which are okay. They advertise on this very website. I worked for them when I first arrived and they're not the best but not the worst place to work. They get you the paperwork, assuming you qualify, and they pay on time. There's also Gateway Language Village, and Fountain School, who both have a good reputation among teachers. Do a search for Delta Bridges and Zhuhai nights and also echinacities and you'll find a lot of job ads.

Also

[solidsnake13]

Haha I knew someone was gonna quote me on that after I reread my post.
What I meant to say is that teaching oral English to low level students versus teaching Physics or Economics requires different levels of teaching. English is of course very important
I have considered the language schools but I am mainly scared of ending up in some hell hole with 30+ teaching hour weeks... but I will definitely apply to some to make sure I at least get placed somewhere.

Anyways these replies are mostly off topic... I was hoping more for some experiences on coming to China early, whether or not I should wait for my degree till I send out applications, and if people have moved over to the business/engineering sector from teaching in China.

[Non Sequitur]

[Non Sequitur]

The thread I recall didn't come up on my search, but here's some chatter that might help.

http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=89864&highlight=entrepreneur
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=87186&highlight=entrepreneur
http://forums.eslcafe.com/job/viewtopic.php?t=83370&highlight=transitioning

[Deats]

I can't see any university allowing you to arrive a month early. In my first uni post they let me come about 5-7 days before. In my new job, even though my wife and I must find a babysitter, settle in etc the MAXIMUM they would allow was 11 days. Unis are on holidays and making someone work during this time is going to get you off to a bad start.

Also, Dalian and Zhuhai are two of the most desirable places to live in China (IMO), and I'd be gobsmacked if you got a stellar gig in one of these cities - the competition for good jobs here will be way higher.

I'd send out applications before you receive your degree. For my first teaching gig I didn't have a TEFL, but promised the uni I'd get one and they accepted this in good faith and employed me.

Something to think about: you don't meet the post uni work experience criteria, you don't meet the TEFL requirement and for uni jobs you are too young. I'd say it is worth getting at least an online TEFL to further your chances of getting a better job. What is more, if you start asking for favours (coming early) before you have even stepped on the plane, some places may not want to offer you a job.

[doogsville]

The biggest barrier to getting a good, legitimate job before receiving your degree is that jobs like that will require you to send copies of all your documents, including degree certificate, at the point of application or at the very least as soon after. They can't apply for the paperwork you need to get the Z visa without that.

Edited to add that you might struggle to find even a private school gig in June/July either though, since it's the middle of the school holidays. Nothing but summer camps in most places.

[3701 W.119th]

I've been living at my new university since July 1st. New FEC obtained in June (I wasn't in the city at the time), and RP renewed and passport returned last week (they held my passport for about 4 days).

My contract doesn't start until September 1st.

There's nobody here, it's like a ghost town, but they're happy for me to stay if I want.

As always, advice on any given situation is hard to offer here. This is China.

[Deats]