Job Discussion Forums

[scot47]

Discussion with friend yesterday had us comparing notes on teaching in the Middle East and teaching in PRC. She is a good bit younger than me and has had recent experience of teaching in China. Like me, her background was in Foreign Language Learning and Teaching.

She noticed how common it was for her American colleagues to have no direct experience of learning a foreign language - in school or as adults. Without exception they left China without having acquired as much as one word of Chinese after staying for one or two school years.

I witnessed similar stories in KSA where some teachers would work for many years and remain blissfully ignorant of the Arabic Language.

What has puzzled me for many years is this : What understanding can someone have of the process of learning a foreign language if they thensleves have never walked down that road ?

[Sashadroogie]

Not much, it is true.

But I find our American cousins are not the main offenders in this regard... Average chap from the UK is woeful...

Ironic, innit, that EFL methodology from the UK claims the higher ground over whatever local methodology... Hic!

[spiral78]

Having at least a functional level of a second language is a criteria for hiring, in my experience. May not be applicable at the entry level, but IMO anyone seeking anything above entry level needs this experience on his/her CV.

[johnslat]

Dear scot47,

Well, you Scots are lucky. After all, English IS a Second Language for you.

Regards,
John

[scot47]

Indeed. Joking apart, the most succesful EFL teachers I know are those who studied Modern or Classical Languages.

[johnslat]

Dear scot47,

Would 8 years of Latin and 3 years of Ancient Greek suffice?

Ah, those parochial schools - the Franciscan nuns and the Jesuit priests.

Regards,
John

[spiral78]

Four years of high-school Latin here. It's been wildly useful in real life (on rare occasions;-)). Plus 2 modern languages in addition to English....

[Deats]

Whilst I agree to some extent, I don't think understanding a second language is a prerequisite to being able to teach your mother tongue. I think:

1) You must know how to teach English - as we all know, this is rather different from just knowing the language. Being knowledgeable about a topic is useless if you can't transfer this knowledge to the students in a way that they understand.

2) Be charismatic. There are plenty of people with a much deeper understanding of the English language than me who have no presence in the classroom. If you can't keep your students engaged, then what hope do you have.

These, imho, are the 2 most important aspects of teaching EFL. Without one of these you can't possibly be successful.

If you have both of these then certainly there can be other factors, such as being bi-lingual, that will assist you in your work, but these are extras rather than essential.

I personally don't see the point of investing large amounts of your time to learn a language if you leave after 1 year and will never use it again. How much Mandarin do you really think you can learn in a year anyway? Don't get me wrong, learning the basics is useful. However, after a year you will never be able to hold a MEANINGFUL conversation with a local. I'd rather spend my time doing other things such as sightseeing, hobbies, improving my knowledge of English and so on.

Each to their own.

[spiral78]

If you're only in a location for one year, you don't move beyond entry level jobs anyway. So, by my definition, no need for a functional level of a second language.
Here's a question for you, though - would you study Mandarin with someone who speaks no English?

[Deats]

So by your thinking, every time you move to a new country you can only get an entry level job. Interesting.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Your question is a little strange. I have never taught a person who speaks absolutely zero English. So, if you are trying to say people would not want to learn with me because I have no Mandarin, then I strongly disagree. (I do speak some Mandarin anyway, but that's not really the point) Otherwise, I'm not sure what your question is getting at. But yes, I would speak to someone with no English, because I have some Mandarin to begin with and online facilities and apps can help if needed.

[spiral78]

Yeah, if you move annually or biannually, you'll very rarely have opportunities to work in to real universities, real international schools, DOS or teacher training positions. You'll always have the worst schedules (because the teachers who were at that school last year will rightfully get the best ones), and you'll never have the longer-term benefits.

I guess it depends on how you define 'entry level.' To me, it's taking the left-overs not already allocated to long-term teachers even at a good (private language) school. Never mind universities or (real) international schools or teacher training centers.

[spiral78]

[Deats]

From my experience being new does not mean you start at the bottom. There are always average teachers who re-sign that you will get bumped ahead of if you prove your worth. My new job gave me the pick of what I wanted to teach as a few teachers are leaving so there were several options available. Usually universities don't specifically give favourable schedules to teachers who have been there longer, in my experience.

I'm curious as to how people get into 'real international schools'. Must you work in a crappy place for 10 years first? I don't think so.

Guess we just have different experiences.

[Deats]

[santi84]

For me, learning a second language was just as valuable as my years of TESL study. The process is a wonderful insight for any teacher to have, and it can have a profound impact on your own teaching methods (for zero beginner to advanced levels). I'm sure there are plenty of decent teachers who can't speak a second language (or more), but I don't know of any excellent ESL teachers that don't have a working proficiency in at least one other language.