Job Discussion Forums

Twinfan603 · Joined: 17 Jul 2015 Posts: 9

Ok so I'm going to try and keep this on the short side.

I'm an American and I just graduated college and am looking for english teaching jobs in Moscow. I studied abroad in Russia and I loved it, but I am mainly going back to reunite with my girlfriend since she has another year of university. I speak a bit of russian and have experience teaching, although not teaching languages. I don't have a CELTA or TEFL yet, but on the CVs and resumes I sent out I said I would absolutely get one if a school wanted me to.

I don't think I'm going to do this long-term so if a school asks me to get one I'd prefer one on the cheaper side. In any case, I have skype interviews lined up with 2 separate schools. I honestly don't care much about the money--the main thing is getting a job so I can get the VISA support and be with my girlfriend again.

With that being said however, I don't want to be taken advantage of by a school. I've read most of the recent posts on this subforum but I'm looking for advice on how to approach getting fair terms with a school. I don't think I should acknowledge that this is just a 1-year setup to any school, but I know that my age and lack of experience tilt things against any favor I have by being a native speaker.

I honestly think I could be a good english teacher, but I have to go about convincing others that to get both a job and decent terms.

Also, I think I get the gist of what a Mcschool is, but what exactly is meant by that term and where did it originate?

(Also, for the record, all the schools I've applied to have been what I assume are mcschools, if that affects the advice you may give or not)

edit: the two schools I have interviews with are Denis' School & Wall Street English/Institute, so if anyone has specific feedback on those two that would be appreciated as well.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:27 am Post subject:

Welcome to the forum!

McSchools is the name given to the bigger chain schools, like BKC, English Firs,t and Language Link. The reasons being the have a branch near every metro station, it seems, and pay about the same as Burger King staff can expect.

Not sure what you would expect fair terms to be, to be honest. No qualifications, or relevant experience, nor real interest in EFL. You'll need some considerable academic support to do the job, not just visa support - so the costs of employing you will be fairly high compared to other applicants. Being a native speaker really won't be enough, and neither is belief that you can teach.

Wall St. might be a good option, though. All their lessons are pre-packaged. All planning and prep done for teachers in advance. Courses highly segmented, and half the lesson are computer-based anyway. No real input is required from teachers. You won't learn develop much as a teacher though, if that becomes important to you later.

Anyway, sorry to sound off-putting. It is just that you may be being a little unrealistic in thinking that you'll get favourable terms. If you get any job offer with visa support, that will be quite good.

Most contracts are just for one year, so that point shouldn't be too much of an issue with any school.

Hope something works out for you.

Best of luck!

Twinfan603 · Joined: 17 Jul 2015 Posts: 9

Sorry if my post sounded a little self-indulgent, because I know I won't get anything favorable and I'm fine with that. I mean, I will need visa support if I take a job, but otherwise I guess I've just been scarred a bit by horror stories of minimal pay and ridiculous hours. (Clarification on Visa support: is it just the school doing the paperwork and such to sponsor you so you can easily get the visa, or does the support include them paying for it as well?)

Your response isn't off-putting, because I know I gotta do what I gotta do even if that means accepting any offer that comes my way. And the job might be convenient for me in the upcoming year, but I would say I have a genuine interest in EFL even if I don't see myself doing it long-term (my girlfriend wants to be a language teacher long-term, so we'll see I guess).

Anyway to ask a few more questions (and I'm sorry if I seem woefully ignorant):
1. How much will a TEFL help my teaching skills? Is it a theoretical "must have" for any EFL teacher to know what they're doing?
2. What are the best TEFL courses other than the high-end ones? (they are currently outside my budget range)
3. What are the specifics of academic support? Is it just additional training that costs time and money or is it something more specialized?
4. What have salaries settled in at--if they have at all--with the recent inflation? (I know I'm going to be lucky to be at even the low end of these projections, but just so I have an idea of the numbers)

Anyway, I'm sorry if I'm sounding like an unqualified ass right now. I realize being a Russophile and a native speaker doesn't mean much, I'm just trying to combine everything I've read already with the opinions of people who actually do this. We all have to start somewhere.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:53 am Post subject:

No worries. It isn't about being self-indulgent. Just hope you are not too disappointed, is all.

Anyway, to answer your questions as best as I can:

Visa support. Yes, the school should do all the paperwork, and provide you with an invitation letter etc. They should pay for all this, including the DHL costs. In addition, they should pay for your city registration when you land here. You, however, need to do all the running to the visa section of the Russian embassy, and get your own health documents and whatever else. See the embassy website.

1. A proper TEFL cert is a must-have. Yes. If you cannot present the difference in meaning between say, 'I go to work at 10:00' and 'I get to work at 10:00', then a course is just for you. Present it to low level learners - not understand it yourself, that is.

2. Celta isn't really a high-end TEFL course, but is pricey enough. Perhaps you'll have to make do with a TKT course. But just don't waste your time on an online course. Just buy a methodology book instead.

3. Academic support usually consists of training sessions, and observations and feedback. Takes time and energy for the school. Depending on how the school is set up, they might do this as a matter of course. But if it is just for you, then, it isn't cost-effective.

4. Cannot really answer that. I hear that roughly 40,000 rubles is the norm, but other posters will have to chime in. The devaluation of the ruble has not had such a great effect on monthly salaries overall, as far as I know.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:02 am Post subject:

Ouch!

Maybe he should just go to China - where nobody needs any training or teaching ability whatsoever?

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

I can add that Russian students are often highly demanding. They may well know more about the technicalities of English grammar than you do. They want discernable value for their time, money, and energy, and you can be quickly discredited without a reasonable grasp of actual teaching skills.

You are aware that most McSchool students will be adult businesspeople? If you're imagining sweet smiling tractable kiddies, or students who will consider you a credible teacher just because you're a native speaker, I second Sasha's China suggestion. Much easier life there for the un/underqualified.

Sorry if that comes across as harsh, but I guarantee you that Russian students can be harsh!

All that said, I do know quite a few teachers who started out un/underqualified, but who took the job seriously and behaved professionally, and who were really fine. They're not all as Deats describes.

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Deats · Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 503

http://gradestatistics.cambridgeenglish.org/2011/celta.html

1.07% fail rate WORLDWIDE for CELTA. Enter and you pass. Obviously some people withdraw, but if they finished the course, the probability says they would have passed.

6 hours of teaching is nothing. You teach that in a day. Yes, you get feedback, which is fantastic. But it's not enough to make you into a capable teacher. It takes a lot of personal trial and error and if you are lucky you will work with colleagues who can give you feedback.

What's more, feedback from practicing in a Chinese classroom is probably going to be different from feedback from a Russian classroom. If you take your TEFL in the UK, your experience in Russia will not match up. That's why it is important that your school is willing to invest some time in training newbs. Also a uni classroom is way different from kindergarten, which is different from secondary and primary school - how can 6 hours cover all these bases?

I've read many reviews about people taking CELTA and DELTA and saying how poorly they scored in the actual teaching parts. But they still passed. So what does your cert prove? How can an employer know that this person can teach? Interview? Maybe. But in an interview they can also find out if a person with an online certificate knows what they are talking about.

Useful at the start (i.e. first fortnight)... yes. In the long run... no.

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject:

No. Quite simply, nothing in the above post has any merit whatsoever. Yet, quite a lot of anger directed to the OP for his apparent unsuitability to EFL.

Most of us in this for the long haul wouldn't see any difference between the OP's situation and those with just an online cert. Sorry about that...

Sashadroogie · Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject:

BTW, fail rates in Celta are strongly influenced by pre-interview selection. Even so, there's is nothing guaranteed about passing. You can fail. And usually it is those with fixed attitudes to teaching that fare the worst...

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

Deats · Joined: 02 Jan 2015 Posts: 503

spiral78 · Joined: 05 Apr 2004 Posts: 11534 Location: On a Short Leash

The whole of a real course supports and contextualizes the teaching practice. Without the TP, the rest is disconnected and basically meaningless.

Further, there is no way to determine whether you can apply what you did learn, given that any of it was worthwhile.

It's one thing to read through something, take a multiple choice exam, and 'say' that you understand it, and entirely something else to effectively apply whatever it was in a classroom.

Twinfan603 · Joined: 17 Jul 2015 Posts: 9

Deats, I realize your personal history might bring up some bad memories, but there is no reason for you to unleash them on me. There was a way for you to construct your post without histrionics, and you failed to do that. You don't know me, so please, don't give me the personalized doom & gloom. If you want to tell me not to do X or Y because you've seen others in similar situations do so, then great, but otherwise there's no need for the snarkiness.

I've never had much money, so I know the importance of work. Beyond that though, it isn't in me to try "to get out of work"; I'm not the kind of person who has their phone out at all times and I can't imagine trying to whittle away a 40 hour week doing nothing--that level of boredom and uselessness would make me miserable. To be honest, by you saying one went to Dartmouth I can basically envision the guy now, and I'd hate him too.

But I do have a desire to teach, and no, I don't imagine I'm going to be good just because I'm a native speaker. I have previous teaching experience and I've spent time on the other side of classrooms, so I know the levels of preparation and personalization it takes to do the job sufficiently. For someone who picked out small details in my posts to critique, you sure missed some important strands of what I said.

If a school hires me contingent on me getting a TEFL, I absolutely will. Even if they only want me to get it in good faith, I will. Granted, it might need to be one of the cheaper online courses, but as you admitted, the basics are the same no matter what course you take. I'm a man of my word, and that applies to the contract I'll sign (if offered one) no matter what happens in my personal life. Seriously, don't tell me it's "doubtful," because that's just you being distasteful and bitter over your own history.

I'm by no means a grammar expert, but I know significantly more about grammar than the average native speaker, so I don't think I'd sink immediately. My long-term career goals honestly demand that I know it and very frequently intersect with teaching anyway, so I am dead serious about work commitment. And yes I'm perfectly self-aware, so I know I don't have the proper qualifications and such right now, but that doesn't mean with hard work and a point in the right direction that I can't become an adequate or even well-regarded teacher.

Yes Spiral, I know most of the students are adults and not kids. I know adults demand more credibility, but overall I think it's probably easier to teach adults since there are more ways for you to get a point across.

In any case, thanks for the advice.