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Oztobeyond
Joined: 04 Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Location: Sydney, Australia
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 Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:44 am Post subject: Need help! I've got a job offer in Huaihua!! |
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Hi everyone!
I'm a newbie on the EFL scene. I recently resigned from my job and decided to take a completely different career path. My searching has led me to EFL teaching overseas.
I'm 23 years old (soon 24), hold a Bachelor of Arts (Majors English and Political Economy) from the University of Sydney (graduated early 2014), and currently tutor ESL to a migrant here in Australia once a week. Furthermore, I'm also completing a 150 hour TEFL online qualification.
I've been surprised just how easy it has been to get a look in by recruiters, especially from China. I've done a few Skype interviews now, and currently I'm contemplating a job offer in Huaihua, Hunan province, China.
I am being offered the following:
- English teaching position at high school, 16 hours per week (no office hours)
- 5,500RMB salary
- Self-contained, all utilities included (inc. internet) accomodation
- 5,000RMB travel allowance released at end of contract
- Medical insurance included
Questions:
1. From what I can gather, this is a reasonable first step into this field, do you guys think so?
2. I'm considering being patient and obtaining a CELTA before I begin working overseas. Do you guys think this is worthwhile - both in terms of employability and actually being able to teach well? I'm also worried that if I delay employment in the field until I gain CELTA, that it would be much harder to secure a job after school term starts in September. Is this a valid concern?
3. I've asked for medical insurance to be mentioned in writing by the school (was not mentioned in the contract). Recruiter says they will do this, however they also say the school has to legally provide it in order for me to obtain my visa Z. Does this sound correct?
4. Recruiter says I can legally work for other employers under this visa for extra money, as long as I don't hold a contract with others. Does this sound correct? How would taxation work?
5. I have been told that the other party pays tax on salary on my behalf, and that the 5,500RMB is what I will net. Does this sound correct?
6. The initial reaction I was getting from others was that 5,500RMB was quite low, so I tried to negotiate up to 7,500RMB. Recruiter says that the salary cannot be changed, as it is set by the government. Does this sound correct?
Thank you all so much. I'm looking forward to working in this field!
Regards,
Matt |
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JamesD
Joined: 17 Mar 2003
Posts: 934
Location: "As far as I'm concerned bacon comes from a magical happy place."
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 2:49 am Post subject: Re: Need help! I've got a job offer in Huaihua!! |
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1. Yes.
2. Harder to start after Sept. unless you wait until February and hope someone bails on a good job.
3. Moot point if they add it.
4. A common CYA statement, but if outside work pays you in cash it's not reported. Not technically legal anyway. You need to confirm directly with the school that is paying you.
5. Yes.
6. A common CYA statement, but 5500 for 16 hours doesn't sound that bad for a first job. Yes, everyone will tell you that you can make 20K, but for a newbie to get over here and start making contacts I would say go for it.
Questions for you:
What do they mean "under this visa"? You need a Z to work and they expressly prohibit second jobs unless your employer says ok. And even then you may hit snags. If they're offering anything other than a Z then dump them.
Did they mention the curriculum and available materials? If it's up to you then expect to spend time developing lessons. |
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Oztobeyond
Joined: 04 Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:40 am Post subject: |
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Hi JamesD,
Thank you for your answers, they are very helpful and reassuring.
Z visa is indeed what I will be obtaining.
No, I don't believe there has been any mention of curriculum / materials being provided. That I would be probably be responsible for doing this has occurred to me.
Anymore feedback in relation to my questions or any other input would be much appreciated.
Thank you all, |
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Listerine
Joined: 15 Jun 2014
Posts: 340
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 3:51 am Post subject: |
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Most privates will pay you cash, so tax is a non-issue - the moolah's all yours, baby! Regarding the tax the school pays on your behalf it'll be a pretty insignificant amount (unless they sign you up to that dastardly social welfare plan...) From memory the tax free threshold is around 4,800rmb meaning on a salary of 5,500 you might pay perhaps 15 in tax. In the past off a pay of 6,000rmb I was having 32 deducted in tax.
It's not an awful foot in the door type job for those hours. |
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Oztobeyond
Joined: 04 Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:05 am Post subject: |
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Does anyone have an opinion on the value of me obtaining CELTA? Both in terms of employability, potential earnings, and the actual gain in teaching ability?
Perhaps I can worry about CELTA later, during or after teaching experience in China. Please keep in mind that China is not the end goal - I would like to teach throughout Africa and perhaps the rest of Asia and the Middle East. At the moment where I'm living in Sydney it would be pretty easy for me to get to and from the educational institutions that run CELTA.
Anyways thanks again, |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| Oztobeyond wrote: |
Does anyone have an opinion on the value of me obtaining CELTA? Both in terms of employability, potential earnings, and the actual gain in teaching ability?
Perhaps I can worry about CELTA later, during or after teaching experience in China. Please keep in mind that China is not the end goal - I would like to teach throughout Africa and perhaps the rest of Asia and the Middle East. At the moment where I'm living in Sydney it would be pretty easy for me to get to and from the educational institutions that run CELTA. |
For the Gulf/Middle East, a CELTA or equivalent 120-hour, in-person TEFL cert is standard. In fact, the majority of governments in the Gulf don't recognize online TEFL certs nor university degrees that included online coursework. Additionally, be aware that any teaching experience prior to completion of a CELTA/valid TEFL cert may not be counted. So if you get a CELTA after teaching a year or two in China, you'd likely be rated as having zero experience if you apply to positions in the Gulf. Something to think about if you plan to teach in countries other than China. Head to the Mid East forums if you have additional questions. |
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Oztobeyond
Joined: 04 Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Thanks nomad soul, that contribution is appreciated.
Yes, I'm a bit torn in regards to CELTA. It seems like an excellent thing to have under your belt, especially in the medium to long term. As I alluded to in my OP, perhaps it would be wiser to be patient and get my CELTA before embarking on any overseas employment.
Regarding ME countries and their refusal to acknowledge online coursework - that seems ridiculously backward to me. My degree was nominally 'in-person', however the reality of virtually any degree these days is a good part of it is done online. To be honest I envision that most BAs and similar degrees will almost be all online in the next 10 years or so, there's simply nothing about them that requires in-person attendance. But anyway, that's another matter... |
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roadwalker
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 1750
Location: Ch
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Experience is more important in China than a CELTA in my opinion. Your online cert will give you enough to consider for the time being. You may possibly have time during the winter holiday in Jan/Feb to take a CELTA or similar in-person course if the dates line up well with your time off. Certainly next summer would be possible. Having the observed teaching practice makes it more valuable than the online. The criticism can sting but it's good to understand how others view your teaching.
....
That's not a bad start for someone with limited experience. I would guess that Huaihua is an area where attracting foreigners is not very easy. You may not have many fellow English speaking foreigners to socialize with or vent after a frustrating China day. That's something to think about. On the other hand, it appears that the area is very scenic, so would be good for excursions.
Ask to speak or email with a current teacher to verify either point! Normally, it's not hard to be put in touch with a current teacher who can answer questions other foreigners might feel are important. |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| roadwalker wrote: |
| I would guess that Huaihua is an area where attracting foreigners is not very easy. You may not have many fellow English speaking foreigners to socialize with or vent after a frustrating China day. That's something to think about. On the other hand, it appears that the area is very scenic, so would be good for excursions. |
OP, I second roadwalker's opinion on the bolded part above. If you do take the offered job in Huaihua, I will be in Tongren in neigboring Guizhou province, and the two cities are very close in Chinese terms ... several trains a day between the two, travel time as little as an hour two minutes and costs about USD 3 for a hardseat ticket ... of course, Tongren is at least as "isolated" and foreigner-free as Huaihua, if not more so, but if you (or I) get desperate to see / hear a native-speaking face / voice, one of us could always pop over for a visit on the day off ... I'm sure my wife and I will make the trip at least a few times, as it's so close and there are. as roadwalker mentions, rumored scenic attractions nearby. |
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Oztobeyond
Joined: 04 Aug 2015
Posts: 53
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:38 am Post subject: |
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Great! Thank you roadwalker and mysterytrain,
Comments on CELTA are appreciated. I'm a little wary of prestigious institutions (namely Cambridge University) claiming unquestionable supremacy in any given field, especially these days when there's so many modes of learning, formal and informal.
Yes I am a bit worried about the social isolation factor. I got that impression too, that Huaihua was certainly not a top expat destination ... that's part of the attraction in a sense. In my mind it makes the place more authentic, and I expect the cost of living to be lower accordingly. Maybe I'm just being naive 
Another thing I'm worried about is being stared at, laughed at, or jeered at ('Gweilo!') for being a white foreigner. This happened to me occasionally even in Beijing and Shanghai, so I expect it to happen every step I take in Huaihua! I gather after a while it would really wear you down and get on your nerves.
Thanks mysterytrain! If you want some western company I'd be happy to grab dinner and a drink with you and your wife. I'm sure it won't be long before I'm craving a normal conversation in English ! |
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mysterytrain
Joined: 23 Mar 2014
Posts: 366
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:41 am Post subject: |
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| Oztobeyond wrote: |
Yes I am a bit worried about the social isolation factor. I got that impression too, that Huaihua was certainly not a top expat destination ... that's part of the attraction in a sense. In my mind it makes the place more authentic, and I expect the cost of living to be lower accordingly. Maybe I'm just being naive
Another thing I'm worried about is being stared at, laughed at, or jeered at ('Gweilo!') for being a white foreigner. This happened to me occasionally even in Beijing and Shanghai, so I expect it to happen every step I take in Huaihua! I gather after a while it would really wear you down and get on your nerves. |
The staring and giggling will happen and will probably continue to some extent for as long as you are there, unless you stay there a really, really long time ... it's best to develop a slightly thick-ish skin about it.
If it amuses you, you can giggle or make faces back at them, but in all likelihood it will be mostly older people and kids who stare and giggle the most, and they won't mean anything malicious by it ... the little "handbook" my school gives to new or prospective teachers mentions this as simply going with the territory in more rural, off-the-beaten-path parts of the country.
On the other foot, I think you will find both the "more authentic" (in some sense of the term) experience and lower cost of living to be true overall. Some things could actually be more expensive to get there, if you can get them (think imported Western foods or other stuff one would typically order from Taobao or the like), but many things should be cheaper ... and of course, with free accommodation and utilities, there's not a whole lot left that you have to spend money on ... food, drink, transportation, the occasional piece of clothing, etc.
By the way, I agree that the job conditions / benefits as stated are pretty decent for a first time job. The hours are low enough, the pay is not great but perfectly adequate, especially for a younger person who doesn't need to worry about saving for retirement just yet, the other things are about on par with the standard. (I only got paid 4500 yuan a month at my first job, in a public middle school in Western China ... I still saved more than half of that every month.)
I also agree that a CELTA is not necessary for a beginning teacher in China, though the caveats that NS gave about the "if"'s of trying to teach in another country later may certainly apply in some situations. I would recommend doing a year on just your online TEFL / TESOL to see if this really does seem like a career path (or "long-term hobby") you want to pursue, before investing in a CELTA. Others might disagree. |
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wangdaning
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 3154
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:46 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, the pointing, giggling, and laowai calling used to get on my nerves, now I just laugh at the stupidity, grannies and the grand kids acting like idiots. Posted on another thread about some granny calling my son xiao laowai, even though he is half Chinese and never been out of China. He is listed on his mom's hukou even. Guess that is the curse he gets for having a non-Chinese father. |
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nomad soul
Joined: 31 Jan 2010
Posts: 11454
Location: The real world
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| Oztobeyond wrote: |
| Comments on CELTA are appreciated. I'm a little wary of prestigious institutions (namely Cambridge University) claiming unquestionable supremacy in any given field, especially these days when there's so many modes of learning, formal and informal. |
Sure, there are various modes of learning. However, online TEFL certs lack a crucial component to teacher training: a minimum of 6 hours of supervised, observed, and assessed practice teaching with a classroom of real students, which the CELTA and equivalent, in-person TEFL courses provide. That entails your tutor or supervising teacher observing you teaching a lesson to real students. Your teaching is then assessed as feedback on what you did right and what needs improvement. Depending on the training, you could be observed six different times (one-hour lessons), or three times (two-hour lessons). Many employers worldwide prefer or require an in-person, 120-hour TEFL cert with this important practical component because it verifies that the job applicant has been sufficiently trained with the skills, knowledge, and hands-on teaching practice to facilitate an English language class. That's not the case with an online TEFL cert.
As for the CELTA, it's a standardized qualification awarded by Cambridge English Language Assessment via Cambridge University Press (not Cambridge University). Standardized means it has the same instructional content regardless of where in the world you take it. Ditto for SIT TESOL (SIT Graduate Institute) and Trinity CertTESOL (Trinity College London). There's no "supremacy" with these entry-level teaching qualifications; they've simply been around for 30-50 or so years, and due to their longevity, are known worldwide. |
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buravirgil
Joined: 23 Jan 2014
Posts: 967
Location: Jiangxi Province, China
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 4:47 am Post subject: |
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| nomad soul wrote: |
| ...they've simply been around for 30-50 or so years, and due to their longevity, are known worldwide. |
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RiverMystic
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Posts: 1986
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| Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| Oztobeyond wrote: |
Does anyone have an opinion on the value of me obtaining CELTA? Both in terms of employability, potential earnings, and the actual gain in teaching ability?
Perhaps I can worry about CELTA later, during or after teaching experience in China. Please keep in mind that China is not the end goal - I would like to teach throughout Africa and perhaps the rest of Asia and the Middle East. At the moment where I'm living in Sydney it would be pretty easy for me to get to and from the educational institutions that run CELTA.
Anyways thanks again, |
If you have the other TEFL qual, having a CELTA probably won't help much at this stage, especially for low-end and newbie positions. If you didn't have any teaching qualification at all, then yes, I would recommend it. And if you were going for more advanced positions, a CELTA would be helpful, but then again you would probably need a higher degree and/or Dip Ed for those as well.
BTW, I bit the bullet and did the CELTA a year ago. I learned heaps, but you couldn't pay me enough money to do that course again. It was hell. Very high pressure. They own your soul for the duration. But full-time it should only be four weeks most places, so you can tough it out.
The pedagogy is very rigid. It's their way or the highway. But that's just the way it is. Just jump through the hoops and hopefully land safely on the other side without a pair of broken b...s. |
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