Job Discussion Forums

[summerheaven]

I am ethnically Chinese, born and raised in Canada. I speak English fluently/at a native level and do not speak Mandarin. I majored in literature and have a TESOL, and am working in Korea as a native English teacher.

With my qualifications, I want to work at an international school or university but with me being Asian, I'm encountering a slew of racist recruiters.

I expected that because I had that happen when I was looking for a job in Korea, but it seems worse this time around... at least in Korea, I was still a foreigner. But since I have Chinese blood or whatever, I'm not foreign enough to teach English (my native language!).

I have been powering through it but the other day I got a particularly nasty recruiter... don't want to go into details but he basically put down and insulted a bunch of non-white races.

I know there are Asians who got English teaching jobs but I'm a bit more restricted as I am required to move to a specific city because of my S/O...

Can anyone in this forum share their experience finding jobs in China as an Asian person? Does anyone know any non-racist recruiters? I'm also trying to contact the schools directly but I learnt that Chinese websites are really poorly designed and don't include contact details. And a lot of schools don't even have websites.

[Shanghai Noon]

May I ask which city you are considering? I have to advise you that faux international schools are hard to get a job in if you are overseas, though once you get your foot in the door of that industry your skin color matters less and less as time goes on.

[3701 W.119th]

I've worked with an ABC and a BBC, and met a few others. They didn't have any problems. All very popular with the students.

I don't have any experience of using recruiters, unfortunately. Training centre job - applied direct to the HQ. Uni job - applied direct to the uni.

The direct uni route is tricky though. Of the 10 universities I applied to directly in Feb/March this year (including all relevant docs), I only got 4 replies promptly (within a week). Three more replied in May, after I'd already accepted a job. The other 3 never replied at all. I'm qualified, tick all the boxes.

I appreciate they may not begin the recruitment process until late April / early May, and that's fine, but they should have at least acknowledged the enquiry.

[creeper1]

[summerheaven]

I am moving to Qingdao as my fiance is moving there for work.

[wangdaning]

Working with a recruiter is usually not good. Even if you are white, they will knit pick and try to downplay anything, then they can sell you short and pocket the change.

Be confident in your abilities, as you seem to be, and you should be able to land a uni job, or at least a low hour language mill one.

After getting shafted/lied to by my first employer (was illegal) I spent months trying to sort something out. This all while being in a foreign country. The job I am at now is fair and it doesn't matter where you are from, but what you can do. There are foreign born Chinese, native Chinese, and other races and nationalities.

Late in hiring season and not sure what Qingdao really has to offer. I would not be so quick to jump on the "it is easy cause your White" bandwagon, as many folks who are white have been asking about why no jobs recently, too. You got in contact with a !!!! and he ranted unnecessary crap. It is unfortunate if the recruiter feels that way, but I doubt he has grounds to do so.

[Deats]

I'm white but I just want to make a few points, even though you don't value a white person's opinion...

I worked in a city where there were about 70 foreigners. Of those 1 guy was Chinese-Canadian at our uni (his English was utterly shocking), 2 American-Chinese in schools and another Japanese-English. On top of this we had people from Russia, Ukraine, Belgium, Mexico (Latino), Germany, Netherlands, South African (Afrikaans natives), Uganda (black), Cameroon (black), Nigeria (black), French Canadian, 3 Afro-Americans and maybe some more I am forgetting. About half the people were not white native speakers. This is an incredibly large percentage when you really think about it. None of them complained to me about finding it hard to get a job. That's not to say they didn't have any issues. Maybe they didn't think they were so deserving of something being given to them though?

Please take into account that white people also find it hard to land their dream job. We don't apply to one place, get accepted and live happily ever after. I know in the West we have laws to make sure that non-white people MUST get jobs in companies, even if they are not as well qualified as white people, but in Asia, the opposite can be true. So both continents can be guilty of reverse racism. In China they want/need white faces working for them. So the boot will be on the other foot there and if you don't like it, then don't go there. Living with a victim complex in your everyday life will be very demoralising.

As a white person in China I am constantly pointed at, stared at, have remarks made to me, charged more (if they can) and so on. Yes, you may find it a little harder to find a job, but once you are there your life will be far easier. So there are plenty of upsides for you, if you are willing to look for them.

Also, you are aiming for a job in an international school when you don't have the necessary qualifications, then blaming your race on the fact you haven't got a job. Stop playing the race card! It's not always the case for goodness sake. Go get an MA and then apply if you want a better chance. I have a degree, 6 years experience, TEFL blah blah blah but I don't even bother applying to good international schools because I have not got a teaching license from my home country or an MA. My white skin won't magically substitute for my missing qualifications.

My guess is that you will find a job in a uni if you start applying in April and on into May of next year. I spent literally 4 months looking for my next position. Some of this time I was looking for jobs in the Middle East. But at least 2 months was spent looking solely for jobs in China. I spent hours every day. Finally I got my dream job, but oh boy was it hard work finding it.

If a recruiter is racist to you then it's simple - tell him/her to go jump. Why are you dealing with a recruiter anyway? If you bothered to read the hundreds of posts about recruiters, people rarely have a good thing to say about them, regardless of the race of the poster.

Suck it up, we all have problems regardless of our race.

[summerheaven]

I actually won't get to Qingdao until March-ish but I'm trying out to test the market and just make contact with recruiters.

Don't make the assumption that I "don't value a white person's opinion" it's just that in this topic in particular, a "white person's opinion" doesn't hold much weight. I mean, the best you can say on this subject is, "I know a person of Asian descent who has a job as an English teacher" and assumes there's not as much discrimination as there is.
A lot of Caucasians seem to brush off this problem because they don't experience racism like POC do. Yes, I know of reverse racism and yes, I understand how having strangers take pictures of you because of your race is stressful and an invasion of privacy but you don't get gunned down in America for being black. You don't get a head tax for being Chinese. You don't get stuck in a harbour for months for being Indian. And yes, I know there is discrimination against Jews or 'gingers' and so I do understand that white people can face terrible racism as well!!!! But this thread is about expat Asians in China. And that's an area you have no personal experience in, right? I am not underminding white people at all! Every race has it's struggles! But I'm not talking about racism in general on this thread. I'm talking about discrimination against expat Asians teaching English in China.

Again, I don't want to turn this thread into a race issue. I'd just hope that you would not to put so many justifications into this. Yes, you happen to have a lot of non-white people at your work. That's honestly great. But that doesn't represent the ESL industry as a whole. I'm sure you know that there are ads out there that straight up ask for white people (some are 'smarter' and ask for Europeans... but we all know what that means) and when you talk to them privately through email or something they straight up tell you or ask for your picture before anything of actual value.

And about this comment: "once you are there your life will be far easier."
That is not true. A lot of people told me that I'll have an easier time in Korea because I'm Asian and can be mistaken for Korean, they were very, very wrong.
And I have been to multiple places in China and again, this is very, very, not true.
I have read blogs of Asians and Chinese people living in China and again, not true.
People question them for not being able to speak Chinese and assume that they're... let's say special needs. Even if they explain that they were raised in the West, they believe that they should still be able to speak perfect Chinese. And in other cases, which I have experienced, they are jealous that they can speak English fluently and mock them for not being able to speak Chinese fluently.
Yes, I have never been secretly taken pictures of in China (that I know of) but I did have that experience in Korea.
These are all experiences of actual Asian people. Their experiences definitely hold more weight than spectator who literally cannot experience it themselves.

I have already explained in my OP that the recruiter straight up said that Asians won't be hired in China. He asked for my picture and race before asking for qualifications. So I wasn't "blaming" my race, it WAS BECAUSE of my race. He wasn't the only one who straight up said it's because I'm Chinese/Asian. I am not playing the race card in this case. Again, in my OP, THEY LITERALLY SAY IT'S BECAUSE OF MY RACE!!!! I would post screenshots of I wasn't worried the recruiters would find this and blacklist me or something. In Korea, recruiters are more subtle and I wouldn't be able to prove that they were discriminating, but these recruiters in China literally straight up tell me! The latest recruiter I mentioned in my OP is white, but there were some that are Chinese.

I think you are defending yourself and attacking me, who was a victim of racism because you THINK I may have insulted you in some way when I implied that white people may not understand the racism we face. I want to make this clear. I was not insulting Caucasians. I do not blame Caucasians for getting jobs more easily than POC. By the way, I'm not saying Caucasians get jobs SUUUUPER easily by simply existing as a white person as you seem to believe, I am saying that it is easIER. There are tons of studies out there proving such. Not only just having a "white face" but by having a "white-sounding name". You can google for this information.

So please do not undermine my experiences with racism.

I do not want to turn this thread into a argument about racism. Please PM me if you wish to continue this conversation further. I will not reply in this thread any further regarding this even if you reply to it here. I honestly want to hear experiences about Asians getting a job in China. I hate thread derailments!

Aaaaaaaand I'd just like to say I do not and would never blame Caucasians for getting a job...
90% of my expat friends who teach in Korea are non-Asian (mostly white, but many other races as well) and some of them realized they were hired because of their looks. They have bad experiences that I won't go into detail because I am not the same race as them and my second-hand retelling of their experiences don't hold as much weight as if they were to come here and post about it themselves. Some of them are good teachers so they hope that they got the job mainly because of that and not their looks. Some of them weren't qualified to begin with and didn't last long in Korea.

I know some Asians who were hired for being Asian too! I have a friend who found out that the last guy (Caucasian, if you need to know) left halfway through his contract because he couldn't deal with the cultural differences. My friend has been at his school for 4 years because although he struggles with Korean culture too, he can handle it better because there are similarities with his Asian culture and so he can be more understanding even if he doesn't agree with everything. The school kept him for so long because of the bad experience with previous teachers (the Caucasian one I mentioned and the one before that was of African descent). He's also a good teacher! But he knows that the school was looking for Asians when they were hiring.

This reply is crazy long but I have to say... I HATE it when people say, "don't play the race card!" when someone is clearly NOT doing so! I literally said in my OP that someone was straight up racist towards me! And not only me, he randomly ranted about other POC for no freaking reason! Like he was angry that he wasted his time talking to me so he had to let me know how racist he is to justify the wasted time or some crap.

[Deats]

I understand your frustration, I do. But you are telling us about 1 recruiter or a couple of recruiters. Recruiters tend to be douches, end of story. If they are being racist, ignore them. Find one that isn't. China isn't Canada. People are racist all the time and get away with it - they are equal opportunity racists at least, as they are racist towards everyone!

My wife is Russian and we face many problems because of this. You have the wrong skin colour, she has the wrong passport. I'm sure you are both equally good teachers.

In China they have a checklist. They ideally want to find a white person (preferably blond/e, blue eyes etc), native speaker, degree, TEFL etc etc. So being white will give a person an advantage with some jobs. But then again your Canadian passport is worth more than my wife's Russian passport. Is it fair to discount teachers just because of a passport? It doesn't take into account where they have spent their life, just where they were born.

Don't tar all Chinese recruiters with the same brush though.

Also, look for jobs that match your skill set. You don't have a teacher's license or MA, so don't look for international school jobs. Look for uni jobs.

What the experience of a white person can offer you is hope - Whilst I haven't first hand experienced racism aimed at Asians (I have experienced it aimed at whites - and racism IS racism regardless of skin colour) I can categorically state that there are loads of non-white teachers in China, including in university positions. So you will find a job.

Ditch the recruiters anyway, and go direct hire. You will get paid more and the FAO will probably be nicer to deal with than a recruiter.

Good luck!

[Non Sequitur]

"The direct uni route is tricky though. Of the 10 universities I applied to directly in Feb/March this year (including all relevant docs), I only got 4 replies promptly (within a week). Three more replied in May, after I'd already accepted a job. The other 3 never replied at all. I'm qualified, tick all the boxes.

I appreciate they may not begin the recruitment process until late April / early May, and that's fine, but they should have at least acknowledged the enquiry".

This is by no means a bad hit rate. 'Should have at least..'
We're a commodity mate!
I'll PM the OP with an idea on QD.
The direct route is the best if you are a bit different to the usual candidate.
A recruiter wants someone out of a Norman Rockwell drawing. Doesn't want to argue or discuss any alternative.
Best

[summerheaven]

Thanks to those who are understanding.

There are other threads like this out there. People being discriminated because of their race or their looks or their gender or their age while they truly want to work in Asia and want to be good teachers but their threads are filled, understandably, with frustration and anger. I tried to limit that as much as I could. I think I seemed level headed in my OP?
I was extremely angry at the last recruiter because he was going tirade about people of African origin and saying some crazy stuff. It just came out of no where!

Every person I've contacted so far have shown that they want a white person and gave up on me immediately after they found out I was Chinese. That's why I asked here if there are any that at not racist. I hope you can understand the frustration.

[Non Sequitur]

You will have read enough to know that language schools use white faces for marketing.
That's why you should stick with the state sector.
A small factor is that we are near (or at) the end of the fall semester recruiting season so overall interest is starting to slacken.

[Double_Dragon]

[doogsville]

You mentioned international schools that have Chinese only websites. These aren't really international schools though, are they, they're Chinese schools cashing in on Chinese parents who don't know the difference. Any real international school is going to have either a bilingual website or an English only website. Have you tracked any of those down? Off the top of my head I know of QSI, or Quality Schools International https://www.qsi.org/employment/ who have several schools in China and others all over the world. I'm sure you can find others fairly easily. These schools should, in general, be easier to get jobs in if you're qualified. My local QSI employs Chinese, Japanese and Malaysian English speaking teachers quite happily, as well as other white, but non native speaking teachers. Just a thought.

[astrotrain]

To OP,

I am a Chinese Canadian as well but male. I encountered some of these recruiter turds in the beginning of my searches for PRC positions and learned quick they are retards that most likely want to sell your scans for personal profit or have no idea what they are doing but spamming sites to get as many candidates that they can bounce to the schools to get potential commish.

Yeah, some of them mentioned schools only hire gwailo, blah, blah, blah and me being a male with exemplary English skills that can blend in University technical writing and street profanities told them where to go to F themselves.

One of them still spams me a year after with offers even quoting back the original nasty response I gave him, so sad such turds.

Regarding positions in the PRC I have long left any interest in teaching basic ESL or oral English blah. Subject teaching is my only interests where my relevant degree and long related work history could be applied and where my passion for the subject lies and in this motif there is a very strong market in the PRC for subject teachers, i,e. science, math, physics, chemistry and my specialty Econ. These positions are usually run by high schools that have international departments that want to get their students into Western Universities with advance credit courses such Cambridge AP A &AS -IGCSE etc.

I know of a boarding school in the city you expressed interests in, if you have some related work history and applicable degree I outlined maybe they have positions still available. Last year they were so desperate to get me over in the contract they offered pre booked flight paid in advance -too many student enrollment in the department. I am now in the process of Visa work for a much better Econ position down in Southern China away from Siberia of Canada that I want to take a long break from. Subject teaching pays so much better but maybe more work but these schools are not true International Schools which require B'ed or teaching certs from back home. The website of my school I see a plethora of Chinese American, Canadian and Chi Brits - I say 92% is Asian foreign teachers with only 2 Caucasians so there are Schools out there that hire many overseas Chinese - look harder and use Serious Teachers.